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Who am I ?

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by UKDarkstar, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    or perhaps the title should be "Is this right?"

    Let me explain (ok rant).

    I'm getting really naffed off with this photo id malarky. I've lived in the same town all my life (46 yrs); identity cards are not yet a legal requirement (ok, so coming in and I have no prob with that) but all of a sudden I'm being asked to prove who I am. Ok, I have my driving license (old pink one as I've lived in my property for 20 yrs) and any number of utility bills and bank statements etc but, oh no, suddenly I must have photo id. Grrrr

    Given that I'm really strapped for cash atm and more concerned with hanging onto my house, I've had to find the money to renew my passport (which equates to an exam fee so that'll have to wait again) as neither Prometric or Vue will let me sit without photo id.

    As if all that wasn't enough hassle, I applied for a job via an agency a couple of days ago and have just got this from them in an email :

    Thank you for sending your CV* to XYZ Ltd

    We have a new website!

    To create your arm.co.uk Web Account, you must click the link below as it contains your unique jobseeker ID.
    By creating a web account, you will help us to build a more detailed profile of you. Once you have completed the online registration process, ARM will keep your profile on our database and will get in touch if we have suitable opportunities.

    What do I get with an arm.co.uk Web Account?

    • Update your personal details online
    • Maintain your CV and send us documents
    • Secure information storage
    • Save the best jobs in your favourites
    • Apply for jobs online
    • Job application history
    • Save searches
    • Email job alerts (based on your searches)
    • RSS feeds for jobs


    Great, no problem.

    Then it says :

    Before you complete your registration please note:

    Under various legislation we are required to establish your eligibility to work in the UK. Documents that prove your eligibility to work in the UK are the front cover page of your passport, AND personal details page (incl. pages bearing date of birth and expiry date of the passport) AND all pages bearing UK Govt endorsements (including previous visas) AND, if applicable, a copy of your workpermit.

    We would be most grateful if you could provide us with clear black and white copies of the required documents. In addition to proof of eligibility to work in the UK we will require copies of any qualifications required for or relevant to the position you are interested in.

    Proof of ID and qualifications is required by the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003. Our obligation to establish your eligibility to work in the UK stems from The Immigration, Asylum & Nationality Act 2006 ("IANA"). Both of these can be accessed through the website of the Office of Public Sector Information on http://www.opsi.gov.uk/. Alternatively, we can provide information if so required.
    Ideally, we would like electronic copies of your documents. These can be uploaded online once you have completed the registration process above. Alternatively, if you do not have access to a scanner, please either fax to 00000000 or post copies to:

    Documents
    XYZ Limited


    We do not require this documentation until you are put forward for a position through XYZ. However, if you do send it now it will enable us to store your details on file and will save you time and effort at a later date.


    Now I'm on with something like 40 different agencies, some of which I've had interviews with (i.e. employers, not the agency). None of them have asked for any of this.

    Is this right ? (maybe I'm just too old and now unemployable !)
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  2. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Yes its correct, the government changed the law so agencies are responsible for ensuring you are not an illegal ! :D

    The annoying thing was last place they made me keep bringing in my passport every two months, making copies promising to put them 'on file' then losing them, was very annoying and so much for identity theft, now theres billions of copies of my passport floating about ! :blink
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  3. postman

    postman Byte Poster

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    I would never leave my ID with anyone, there is too much chance of the details falling into the wrong hands.

    BTW over here in NI we've had photo driving licences since the troubles.
     
    WIP: A+
  4. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    If it keeps people from abusing the system and stealing other people's identity (or taking exams for them), I'm all for it.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  5. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Henry Kelly going for gold :D

    Because there so many illegals in this country now it was inevitable this would happen :(
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  6. Gav

    Gav Kilobyte Poster

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  7. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    This is now a requirement to prevent illegal workers as well as potential terrorist. I once had an agency ask me to get a copy of my passport scanned over via e-mail before confirming my interview with the company.

    I didn't think much of it at the time but it all makes sense considering the above.
     
    Certifications: MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003 Messaging, MCP, HNC BIT, ITIL Fdn V3, SDI Fdn, VCP 4 & VCP 5
    WIP: MCTS:70-236, PowerShell
  8. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    All good stuff, this requiring verification of identity isn't it? Preventing cheating at exams, making sure you're who you say you are when you claim your unemployment benefit, keeping the country safe from The Evil Axis Of Terrorists or whatever it's called this week.

    That is, of course, until the stupid employment agency you're registered with either goes bust and chucks all their paper copies of your documents in the skip behind their offices, or contracts out their IT support to some bunch of monkeys who nick the drives out of PCs sent to them for repair and cream your personal information off them, or partners with another agency and sends them a list of their candidates on CD which gets 'lost in the post'...

    As someone who has regularly seen the consequences of identity fraud first-hand, I wouldn't trust most employers with a copy of my swimming certificates - let alone my passport!
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  9. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    This has just erupted at my place. They want everybody to bring in a passport or equivalent because of this new law.

    Harry.
     
    Certifications: ECDL A+ Network+ i-Net+
    WIP: Server+
  10. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    I am not a name, I am just a number :cry:

    There ought to be an alternative if you don't have photo id and have been a uk resident for, say, 20 years or something.

    :x

    (Gonna go start my own country somewhere I think ..... anyone want to join me ?)
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  11. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    The Irony here is that you all seem to think someone needs to steal your passport / bank statements/ driving license to steal your identity. £250 i'll get you the newest Driving license that is impossible to tell the difference, £300 with the paper counter part that comes with it.

    £40 i'll get you a PERFECT copy of a bank statement / utility bill and anything else.

    £0 i'll get the details needed to use the above products to steal your life.

    It's a simple process believe me.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  12. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    No I'm not comng at this from an identity theft viewpoint.

    My issue is that I have lived and worked here all my life and in the same property for the last 20 years.

    All of a sudden any existing forms of identity that I have used in the past (e.g. old style pink DL, utility bills etc) are being considered no longer valid and I am being "forced" to apply for photo id.

    I can see the argument for people that have, say, come into this country in maybe the last 5 years but feel hard done by that it is being applied to me.

    That's my personal opinion and, tbh, I don't care if it's not politically correct ! :twisted:
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  13. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    No I'm well aware of how easy it is thats why I mentioned it.

    Passports contain various security features but how often are they really checked ? Someone with a black and white copy of my passport could quite easily create a passable fake with their photo and my details.

    I shred all my paperwork to prevent dumpster diving, but what defence have I got against this and all the other information on me transmitted around by third parties ?

    Non photo ID is useless because anyone can intercept your mail, or apply for someone elses birth certificate, or borrow someone elses paperwork. Even photo ID is not that reliable as stated, true criminals laugh at all these measures.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  14. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    Exactly True, there is no defence against it too be honest, the world is a place where nobody knows anyone else anymore. maybe 150 years ago before globalisation it wouldn't matter.

    but if someone wants your life, they can get your life, it is impossible to defend against. all we can do is make it slightly more time consuming for them. But at the end of the day, its a fruitless defence.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  15. madman045

    madman045 Kilobyte Poster Premium Member

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    Out of curiosity then, if you dont drive and have never had reason to get a passport does this mean you cannot take any exam at all as the exam centre's require photo identification?
     
    Certifications: 70-270, 70-290, PRINCE2 Foundation, VCA-DCV & VCA-DT
    WIP: MCSA 2008, VCP5-DCV, ITIL V3
  16. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    YES

    When I spoke to Prometric about not having photo id they said the only way they would accept it was :

    1) get a letter confirming other id was acceptable from exam body (eg EXIN/ISEB)

    2) letter needed to confirm the exact exam, date and venue

    3) letter then had to be sent to Prometric who would verify it's authenticity with the exam board

    4) Prometric would then inform the exam centre

    5) exam centre still then had the right to refuse you sitting exam if they did not "approve" the id docs you actually turned up with

    I realise the reasons for the rules but for all rules there should be exceptions dependent on circumstances and they need to be flexible. The above does not seem very flexible to me !
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  17. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I'm all for proving that I am who I say I am, and will carry as much ID as they want.

    At the moment, the UK is way behind other places.
    I did a stint in Germany, and if a policeman asked you for your ID and you didn't have it on you, they would invite you to stay at the lock up until someone produced it.

    I'm happy for CCTV cameras to track my movements and show where I've been.

    Because I've got nothing to hide.

    But, as has already been pointed out, at present this all falls down because I can't be sure someone else doesn't have a clone of my credit card, copy of my passport or the same car registration plate.

    There also seems to be a lot of inconsistency. Some places will accept a passport, because it 'proves' who you are. Others won't, because it doesn't 'prove' where you live.

    What does annoy me is when a contract requires a photocopy of a company director's passport to sign off. Try getting a director to bring in their passport and let you photocopy it...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  18. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    I think my point here is that I'm not against id.

    But, as it stands in the UK, I do not have to have an id acrd, I don't have to have a passport and I don't have to have a photo dl to be able to walk about on the streets.

    Yet now, to do something like sit an exam or get a job via a recruiter I am being forced to have photo id.

    In that case, the formal id card should be brought in now as law for everyone - whilst it isn't it is extremely annoying that these situations crop up.

    I'd better stop ranting now :p
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  19. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    I have nothing to hide either

    But however i do value my privacy (that includes not having my details in places where i don't want them)

    And I do resent the fact I have to go to so much trouble to go to work, I mean if it was something pleasurable at the end id understand

    So far I have been fine in exams with my provisional license and a bank card, while jobs have accepted A copy of my birth certificate and provisional license.
     
    Certifications: A+, Net+, MCSA Server 2003, 2008, Windows XP & 7 , ITIL V3 Foundation
    WIP: CCNA Renewal
  20. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    If you want to take exams, simply follow their rules and get an ID. It's really not that bad. In truth, one could make the same sort of complaint with other exam or certification requirements that are much more burdensome:

    - "Why does Oracle require that I pay for and attend an Oracle University class? I don't have the money or the time to take a class..."
    - "Why does ISC^2 require that I get another CISSP to vouch for me? I don't know any other CISSPs..."
    - "Why do I have to submit a video of me training a class to CompTIA? Can't they just trust me to be a good CTT+?"

    Really, getting an ID card is not that horrible, even if there's no law that says you have to have a photo ID. Sure, you don't HAVE to have an ID to walk about on the street. But you don't HAVE to have certifications to get a job in IT, either... yet you get them anyway. Why go through the hassle? Ah - you do it because it's actually a pretty good idea. Same with the ID card... just man up and do it, and get it over with. Whining and ranting's not gonna make the problem any better.

    Or, do the alternative: don't get the ID, and don't get certified. After all, you don't HAVE to do it.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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