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Vista licensing restrictions

Discussion in 'Software' started by ffreeloader, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Microsoft is getting even more restrictive with their licensing. With XP you can reinstall XP as many times as you like as long as you re-validate with MS. Vista has a new restriction written into the EULA. You will be able to move Vista to one new device. Period. After that you buy a new copy.

    That means if you upgrade any of your hardware that MS deems to make your computer a new device, such as motherboard, video card, etc... and which now require you to re-validate XP you'll be able to do this one time, and one time only in Vista.

    You doubt this? Read the following link and the actual wording in Section 15 of the Vista EULA. (The Vista EULA is linked to from the link below.) No such restriction exists in the XP EULA. So, all you gamers who upgrade to new hardware on a regular basis will be buying a copy of Vista every other time you upgrade your hardware.

    Happy spending.... MS now has you by the short hairs.

    http://www.fatwallet.com/t/28/661585/
     
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  2. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    There is no mention of that in the article....

    Not a big deal. If you need to legitimately reactivate Windows then phone MS, they give you an activation code and then its business as usual. 8)
     
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  3. noelg24

    noelg24 Terabyte Poster

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    and that is where I agree with you Sparky. I remember a couple of years back after I upgraded the firmware to my now sold DVD/CD-RW combo drive. Windows XP asked me to re-activate windows...but I could only do it by phone even tho I didnt reinstall the OS or change anything to it. I rang MS and they got it re-activated. So if it means phoning them once I upgrade my parts (which will happen) then fine...besides it is an 0800 number isnt it? 8)

    Seriously tho Freddy we all know u have this gripe with Microsoft but come on. I think its time you put a lid on this cos its really starting to get tedious. Yes everyone is entitled to their opinions and that but sometimes my friend, you can go too far.
     
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  4. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Thanks Freddy, I find that change in the EULA to be highly suspect too, and I would expect some legal retaliation if any of what you predict is proven to be true.
     
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  5. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    This is all speculation at the moment. Microsoft would open themselves up to one hell of a lawsuit if they did go ahead with this idea. Even though it is speculation, it is making me wary of upgrading once vista goes gold.
     
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  6. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Hmmm - this is an interesting debating area. Personally, I've always thought there is good and bad on both sides. Yes M$ are trying to protect their revenue, and continue market dominance. Equally, their licensing practices are nothing short of a disgrace. However, whilst Linux has a viable claim to being 'better' than M$ in many respects, the very fact that the majority of people who use it are so bloody sanctimonious about it puts a lot of people off. Us nerds have to realise that, for the vast majority of people, computers are a source of mystery. The ordinary person doesn't want to have to learn something sompletely different from their work PC at home, and I'm sure is put off by the majority of people that use Linux at home being so condescending towards Windows users.

    Although Freddy may come across as a bit paranoid about the licensing changes, he's quite right to highlight them, as they are a potential nightmare for people who regularly fiddle about with their boxes. Why should the poor sod who's just been forced to go out and spend £600 upgrading their graphics cards to the latest 8-way-SLI technology (I'm thinking ahead here folks!) be hit with a double-whammy when he reboots into a version of Windows rendered about as useful as an Etch-A-Sketch because the licensing technology deems his upgrade to be a 'new PC'. I have no doubt that Microsoft was mightily pissed-off at having to reauthorise all those PCs five or six times when people rang up last time, be under no illusion that this will DEFINITELY be stopping this time around.

    Besides, its just plain wrong to say that M$ allowed you to relicense XP any number of times if you just rang up instead of going through the online activation - doing so more than once was a clear violation of the licensing policy for XP. Just because everyone knew you could get away with it, doesn't mean M$ liked it!

    However, that said, until the open source community gets its arse in gear and stops treating Windows users as inferior and concentrates instead on making versions of Linux distros that just install and are as easy to use as Windows is - and don't go on about Ubuntu Harry - I've used it and its far from intuitive :biggrin - without regular people needing to know about Samba, Cups, Mounting drives and gawd knows what else, Linux will always be a poor second to M$ in the home market. That, after all, is what this element of the licensing changes are aimed at.
     
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  7. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Then you didn't read very closely.

    Here is the link to the MS EULA.

    http://download.microsoft.com/docum...lish_9d10381d-6fa8-47c7-83b0-c53f722371fa.pdf

    Read Section 15 carefully and then take a look at XP's EULA. You will find nothing like this carefully worded section. Remember also what MS considers a "new device" to be. That can be a new motherboard, a new video card, a new cpu, etc... in an existing PC. That is MS's existing definition. There is nothing new about that. It is new that they put into writing that you can place Vista on only one new device.

    Since you think this will be "business as usual" along XP lines show this same restriction in XP's EULA. If you can't find it do you think that just possibly MS has changed their policy and are not going to allow you to re-install/change hardware unlimited times?

    I'd also like to know how many individuals have pockets deep enough to take on MS in a lengthy court battle after they've already agreed to the licensing restrictions just by agreeing to Vista's EULA? They will be on shaky legal grounds to begin with as they already said they agreed with the restriction.
     
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  8. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Don't worry Freddy.

    Microsoft aren't going to let you have Vista anyway.
    You're on their 'sceptics/critics' list - I've seen it.
    Trust me, the moment you even look at the box in PC world, a man in dark glasses will ask you to leave quietly.

    We'll let you know how it goes.

    :biggrin


    Seriously though, I had an amusing argument with them once about activating media from an action pack. They told me that there was nothing they could do and I would have to take it up with the person who supplied me with the software...
     
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  9. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    LOL that's just classic :biggrin
     
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  10. elli5on

    elli5on Kilobyte Poster

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    To be honest i cant really see microsoft putting such restrictions on their software. At the end of the day, everyone knows microsoft will always be the main OS supplier for many many years to come. Why??

    For the simple reason, no other operating systems provide enough woooomph for 3D applications.

    Maybe ill create an OS myself, and all you guys can have a version for free!! lol
     
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  11. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Actually I did. 8)

    I deal with reactivating XP on a daily basis, with some of the users I support insisting in installing dodgy P2P music software sometimes a rebuild is the only option. I think some of the laptops are up to around 10 rebuilds. Each time Windows has to be reactivated and each time a reactivation code has been given.

    In some cases I haven’t been asked why I need a reactivation code and if asked I just say the hard drive failed.

    I can’t see there being any problems with Vista, how many rebuilds does a user do even if they are an extreme gamer? Perhaps they will keep the same mobo and upgrade the graphics card but I would be surprised if they need to reinstall over 10 times for the life of the OS. 8)
     
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  12. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Will they never learn :rolleyes:
     
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  13. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    I thought I'd respond to a couple of points here.

    First, telling people what is in Vista's EULA isn't treating Windows users as inferior. It's simply informing them of what MS has put into writing in the EULA. I'd say most people don't bother reading all the legal mumbo jumbo found in a MS EULA. I just find it interesting that people will place trust in a company that has the extended track record of dishonesty that MS has.

    Second, I disagree completely with the idea that all OS's or systems must be like Windows or they are treating Windows users as inferiors. That is simply not true.

    1. MS is solely responsible for creating the situation the user of open source products has to gain a lot of technical knowledge to make another OS interoperate with a MS OS.

    2. No matter what system a person works on they have a learning curve. To expect to go from one highly technical product to another and not have a learning curve is an unreasonable expectation. That's like saying that a Chevy mechanic ought to be able to step right into a Ferrari dealership and know everything he needs to know to work on any part of a Ferrari without any training.

    3. The Linux GUI's are pretty intuitive for users to use. I will use my wife as an example.

    My wife has used MS products for 25+ years in the jobs she has had during that time. Three years ago I had to teach her how to copy-and-paste, drag-and-drop, and where-to-find/how-to-use Windows Explorer. She still hadn't figured that out in all the years she had used a computer as she never wanted to know more than how to use the software she needed just to do her job. IOW's, she was a typical user. I couldn't get her to play a computer game or even get near the computer when she was at home. She hated it.

    Two years ago I moved all our home systems to Debian. I spent all of about 5 minutes showing her how to navigate the menu system in Gnome. I set up her email client(evolution), and left her at that after telling her to ask if she ran into any problems. She has asked for help one time: she needed me to install clipart for Open Office. I had to do the same type of things for her in Windows.

    Today she regularly plays several of the games installed by default in Gnome and KDE. (Probably 10 hours a week of gaming.) I've never shown her any of them. She uses Opera as her browser. (I never even showed it to her. She found it and started using it.) I've found her looking around and exploring on her own. She has even changed the default theme in her account and made a customised desktop. She would have never done this in Windows. She didn't even want her own user account or email address in Windows

    Now, if Linux is so difficult to for a "typical user" and treated them as "inferior" my wife would be evidence of this. But, exactly the opposite has happened. My wife has found that she is actually somewhat interested in learning something about computers now. If she had found Linux pretty non-intuitive she wouldn't have expanded her skillset as much as she has. She definitely would not be playing games and looking around. She would be avoiding the computer like the plague, just as she did when all we had in the house was Windows.

    Now, does she administer the computer? No. She didn't have a clue as to how to adminster a Windows box either. But, she does more with the computer after 2 years of using Linux than she did after 20 years of using Windows. What's even more amazing is that she actually has shown the interest to learn things such as how to change the theme without me ever knowing she had done it. That's far more interest than she ever showed in Windows.

    So, Linux not intutive for users? I think not. Any user who puts forth even the same amount of effort they put forth to learn Windows can learn to use Linux. To tell the truth the more time I spend with Linux the less intutive I find Windows to be. You'll find many people who use Linux on a regular basis, and Windows infrequently, will say the same thing. In fact, the more I learn about Linux the more logical and well-designed I find it to be and the more I find Windows to be a cobbled-together mess.

    Is there a steeper learning curve in learning to adminster a Linux box than a Windows box? Of course there is, but that's by design. Linux is wide open. Everything is accessible. That makes it much more flexible, and because of that creates the much steeper learning curve. It also creates the best learning platform there is. It hides nothing from you. It allows you see exactly how everything works. It allows you play-with/modify every part of the system.

    Wizards hide things. Configuration files expose things. That's why most aspects of Linux are configured through text files. Linux is designed to be free, open, powerful, and flexible. That isn't saying people who don't use it are inferior, it just requires anyone who wants to use it have a desire to learn. Anyone who doesn't want to learn, or expects other people to do all the work for them just shouldn't expect to find it a place friendly to what they are looking for. Linux was never designed to be that system.

    Car A is designed to be purchased right off the shelf and requires very little knowledge of how a car is built to own or use it. Car B requires the owner to build it from a pile of parts. It requires knowledge of how to build the engine, do the body work, paint the car, upholster the interior, wire the car, set up the suspension, etc.... Is the second car discriminating against the users of the first type of automobile? Not in the least. They were designed to reach different parts of the marketplace.

    Now, would you expect an owner of Car B to hold the hand of anyone and everyone who currently owns Car A so the Car A owner can become an owner and user of Car B? I very much doubt it.

    I would say it is a reasonable assumption that if someone wants to own and drive Car B that they should put forth a considerable amount of time and effort obtain the skills necessary for them to build Car B, or pay an owner of Car B to do the work for them if they don't want to learn how to build and maintain Car B. That isn't saying owners of Car A are inferior. It's saying that it's unreasonable to expect all owners of Car B to simply give away everything they spent very considerable amounts of time, energy, and money to learn.

    But, will some Car B owners help Car A owners if they see Car A owners putting forth a lot of time and effort on their own? Yup. They will appreciate the effort being put forth. Will those same people help those who expect someone else to just give them all the benefits of their knowledge and skill while not putting forth effort on their own to learn? Not a chance. And, they are not being unreasonable in that choice either. They will help, they just don't like to help people who just want to use them. They want to see evidence of the effort being put forth before they will help because they are used to seeing Car A owners who say they want to be Car B owners but don't want to learn anything. They will even become rather short, and seemingly rude to an outside observer, with those who say their skills are to be available on-demand to those who want to put forth no real effort.

    The above attitude is not seen as unreasonable in any other part of life, so why is it seen as unreasonable where computers are concerned? Are there those who will "lord it over" the newbie in computers just as there are in those who will do the same in any other endeavor in life? Yeah. But that basic human nature.
     
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  14. fortch

    fortch Kilobyte Poster

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    LOL, I remember you teaching her the copy/paste thing ... has it been that long?

    I'll refrain from hammering out a 10 paragraph response, even though I relish them at times. This subject, however, is almost the same as before, so I'll not repeat myself. If you don't wanna play, then don't pay :dry

    As great as Linux desktop has become, XP still has the UI more streamlined. With Vista, it's no contest. In Linux, it's common to have 2 or 3 apps that do the same thing. Confusing to desktop users? Heck yeah. I have Debian and Ubuntu, the latter probably the most polished, and as pretty as it is, it's still built by geeks. With Vista, M$ has finally taken a page out of Apple's book of aesthetics, and tried to refine and simplify the GUI.

    When something doesn't work, that's where Linux struggles. Even the simplest troubleshooting is done via the CL, and although everything is very much a text file, they require a certain geek factor to comprehend. Still, *I* like it, but I'm not the average user. Give up? Go to the web, right? Yeah, if the Linux 'gurus' will take the time to help, without the backhanded insult of being a n00b. Oh, and if google or the forums don't have an answer, where to next? AFAIK, there ain't no support.linux.com to draw from, at least not as useful as M$'s. If your own distro is limited, sure, you can use a similar support structure, but sometimes those differences aren't always spelled out, and you end up staring at the screen. What about native support for iPods, digicams and anything else joe user will plug into his desktop? Chances are excellent for a Windows client. Linux?

    Ack, need to stop. I accidentally turned this into a Linux vs. Windows desktop challenge. :rolleyes:
     
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  15. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    I'd like to continue this thread with this quote from a blog by Ed Bott, a blogger from ZDNet who is normally pro-MS.

    You can read the rest of this Ed Bott blog post here. It's pretty plain that even pro-MS people are having a hard time swallowing the idea that the change that prompted this thread in MS's EULA in Vista is meaningless and it is "business as usual" as far as being able to move Vista from one machine to another goes.
     
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  16. Baba O'Riley

    Baba O'Riley Gigabyte Poster

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    There's a good article on this over at the Reg. I have to admit, some of the new EULA entries sound crazy.
     
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  17. zimbo
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    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    so legally certain versions of vista will not be allowed to run on vmware??

    btw does anyone know what version of vista 70-620 will be using?? :blink :rolleyes:
     
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  18. Baba O'Riley

    Baba O'Riley Gigabyte Poster

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    Given that AFAIK, there's no MCP in XP Home, I would imagine either Enterprise or Ultimate.
     
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  19. MrNice

    MrNice Kilobyte Poster

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    I have read most of these articles in-depth and have to say new liscensing is very dodgy to say the least.

    My problem is this, If i hand over £350 of my hard earned (yes the prices are just as dodgy) for vista ultimate in my humble opinion it is now mine to do with as i please. As a gamer and general PC enthusiast I modify my pc regularly, so I can now do this only once and then they want another £350?

    What about genuine hardware failures, is this just hard luck?

    This reminds me of the law student in the USA that was sued by MS for selling his legitimate XP student retail edition on ebay. The dude had purchased it and decided it was not for him. Appalled that he was unable to return the product to seller he decided to recoup his costs. Microsoft sued him for piracy and he ended up counter suing them for selling a product which he could not return. Quite simply he won.
     
  20. Baba O'Riley

    Baba O'Riley Gigabyte Poster

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    I've never heard that story before. I don't know what US consumer law is like, but over here MS would be taken to the cleaners. Glad he won. :D
     
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