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US election

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by zxspectrum, Oct 8, 2008.

  1. zxspectrum

    zxspectrum Gigabyte Poster Premium Member

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    Watched the vice president election last week and im watching the presidential one now , only because i cant sleep. Anyway over here our politicians always bang on about helpiing the working class, but over in the US they bang on about helping out the middle class. So can i take it from this that most of America are middle class?? i know its a daft question but if there is any US people amongst us who can elaborate a bit more id be grateful.

    Ed
     
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  2. delorean

    delorean Megabyte Poster

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    Rather OT sort of type of kind of thing a bit like:

    I've been following the presidential race with a loose interest over the last year, mainly because of the current economy crisis and the fact that this directly affects the Cayman Islands because our currecy is tied directly to the US Dollar and not UK Sterling.

    I'm going to do what Sarah Palin does best and ignore your question. However I will provide an alternative answer and that is if I was a US citizen, I would vote Obama. Who wants 4 more years of the Republican party that has flushed the USA well and truly down the toilet. John McCain will probably die in the next 4 years and then what, your left with a dumbass VP as president that doesn't know her arse from her elbow (or for that matter what a passport is).

    What the USA really needs instead of Obama/Biden '08 is Plainview/H.W. '08!

    I'm finished!!! :biggrin

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Yes; the working class is, generally speaking, the middle class.

    That said, it's all talk; the only thing they really want is the middle class's vote. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    Most of the votes come from the working people which is mostly the middle class. So yes, they want to sux up right now. Will they keep their word? Who the hell knows.

    As for you delorean. I would just like you to know that it was a democrat who sent my jobs and thousands upon thousands of other jobs out the freaking front door with open trade and the lays off still have not ease up where more and more compaines are still leaving the states for cheaper labor overseas. As for bush, this country was way in debt before he came into office. That has been going on for years so don't just lay it at his door it is all their faults no matter what side of that dam hill they are on. Presidents have been putting this country in debt since I don't know when. And forgetting other coutries that have debts to us doesn't help one bit either.

    And I'll tell everyone right now. I sure don't want a president who doesn't acknowledge our flag. It doesn't bother me that he won't swear on the bible. He wants to use the kron? Is that right? That upsetted Joe. But like I told Joe, if he doesn't belive in the bible why would you want him to swear on it. His word would be worthless. I just pray to god that if he does make it into office that we do not come under attack again. I don't trust him one wit to protect us or our beloved country. And just what exactly is up with his friends? One a terrorist and another is into fraud, bribery, money laundering and my favorite extortion. How the hell did he have no idea about either of them? And lets not even mention his pastor.
     
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  5. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    argh the constant whining of globalization pisses me off
    we really need a grasp of global economics before we can bitch about it, and most of us don't have that, so we just see it from one perspective

    all too common the American middle class bitch that unskilled jobs are going overseas, to cheaper labor, but they don't care to mention that exports of what America still holds the edge in is increasing to these once non existent markets, and they all still shop at walmart because the food is cheaper, despite the fact that wal mart POURS its profits into chinese manufacturing and goods industries

    That attitude has GOT to STOP, this is a hyper connected WORLD economy, there is no national economies left, too much relies on the skills and resources of the globe, no single country has the edge in that respect

    where America does have the edge (and is loosing it fast) is it's education. America can produce highly skilled workers, and with them highly skilled service industry and new developments

    an Indian CEO once said that whilst india is taking jobs from america on one end, its pouring money back into america now that it has established a middle class of its own, people who want and can afford american services, it needs america to stay one step in order for the cycle to continue

    The main problem? the vast majority of american middle class hate change, they don't think they should 'have to' re skill, they think it's beneath them to alter what they have done for 10 years, even if you can now digitize there day job to be done in seconds by a computer, go figure!

    From a political stand point, my views are pretty well known, I can't vote, so I try to stay objective, we need to cut military spending, increase spending on education, healthcare and infrastructure again so that america can once again lead the worlds educated workforce, without it were just the uneducated school bully, good at nothing and useless, once the first country with a decent right hook stands up to it
     
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  6. Mitzs
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    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    Have you actually bought food in a walmart lately? Because if you have and think it is cheap then you are somehow making more money with no job then I am with a ssi income and belive that isn't alot. I don't by food at walmart. I can't even begin to buy their meats even when they are almost out of date and have been marked down. I go to save alot or food lion. Food lion often has good meat sales here. I shop at 3 different stores to get the most out of my money.

    And just what edge are you talking about? I sure like to know. When I first moved to this town there were atleast 10 clothing factories here that I knew about. Not including small private own ones that worked maybe 30 people at the most. 2 of the major ones were levis and osh kosh. Now they are all gone expect for 1 that wasn't even here at the time. And that one makes tents for the army. It has about 50 60 people working. Osh Kosh provided over 350 sewing jobs alone. Then we had bundle boys, cutters, mechanics, boxers, atleast 2 people per line for quality control. Levis was it equal. Not to mention the other factorys. There has been no other bussiness come into this town to replace those jobs. Retraining was crap, because the choices we had for retraining were not available as jobs once they graduated. You better dam will bet I am bitching. They open our borders for free trade but did nothing to replace the jobs we were losing. If the citizens can't work, then contactors can't build, then self contractor can't not plumb, wire, paint, or lay carpet. If we the citzens do not have a income then we can not provide a income for others that need to make a living and if you think you are going to send me outside of my county to make a living then you better belive the county that gives me work will be the county that gets my money. Do you know how many of my friends had to claim a fake devorice just so they could get help from the goverment just too keep insurance on their kids while they went though retraining because most of the man in this area only have the lumber field for a job and those don't come with health benafits or big paychecks. Would you like to know how many of them lost their home because they went from 4 to 5 hundred dollars a week and then ended up on unemployment while retraining and their pay dropped in half. Technology is great. I love technology. But it isn't **** when its not bringing in new jobs to replace the old ones that we are losing to overseas for cheaper cost.
     
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  7. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Your right Mitz

    America should stick to interfering with corporations ability to use outside labor, that will help it survive in a world market

    America should make sure Levis is forced to keep hiring expensive low skilled local workers, when a machine can do just as good a job for bugger all, that will help it survive in a world market

    America should continue spending billions of tax payers money giving it away to companies who 'keep jobs in house' because that's such a sustainable use of federal cash

    You stand up and bitch about how globalization has caused you and your friends hardship
    You stand up and bitch that 'other countries' are taking 'American' jobs
    you miss the point!
    other countries are not TAKING your jobs, US companies are GIVING them to them because its cheaper
    If I was a CEO and I could hire a masters graduate for 10k USD in India or a high school drop out for 11k USD in Flint to do the same job, I'm going with the Indian

    Don't blame the other countries, the ones who have skilled workers at low prices due to there economic condition

    Blame your government for providing crap retraining benefits, crap health care benefits to children, but millions in tax breaks to corporations regardless.
    Blame your government for failing to provide adequate funding in education and health care at K-12 levels

    But most of all, stand up and take responsibility, its YOUR COUNTRY
    Your American, that means you live in a democracy, you chose who is in charge, you shape your countries future, you, your family, and your friends decide those things
     
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  8. delorean

    delorean Megabyte Poster

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    This practice goes on throughout the world. I had a similar feeling about this when I lived in the UK wondering why immigrants from eastern Europe were taking all of our jobs and then I woke up and got a reality check.

    Additionally when you get folk complaining jobs are going to immigrants and you read in the media quotes from people saying "i'm not doing that job it's slave labour" and then they sponge off of welfare, then they have no right to complain! Alas I am straying off the point a little there though but I hope you see my point.

    I am an immigrant in this country, nobody complains about me taking a job designated for a Caymanian. That's because measures are set in place here so there is an equal balance of work available for both Caymanians and immigrants.

    I agree though Phoenix, you hit the nail on the head with "other countries are not TAKING your jobs, US companies are GIVING them to them because its cheaper". That is pretty much exactly what it is.
     
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  9. delorean

    delorean Megabyte Poster

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    I agree wholeheartedly. But in his 8 years of office, President Bush hasn't exactly helped avoid the spectacular nosedive the USA has taken has he?

    McCain doesn't exactly look like he wants to do much about the economy either. All I ever hear from him and Palin is "maverick", "oil", "Iraq" spliced in with occasional bouts of "bail out" and "Obama is not fit for President". Heck even Sarah Palin's answers in the debate the other night were delivered like they were heavily scripted and when she was presented with something she didn't have an answer for, she avoided the question completely!

    Both candidates have their flaws, but as an outsider looking in, my vote goes firmly with Obama.
     
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  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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  11. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    Do you want me to provide the cola? :twisted:
     
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  12. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I'm missing my lawn chair... it's around here somewhere... I was hoping to find it before the fireworks show started.
     
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  13. Mitzs
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    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    Just where did you see me blame another country? I belived I said OUR country open the door to free trade! I am not blaming anyone but our goverment and the companies that take advantage of it. I belive I said it was the goverment fault for not making sure other bussiness would be replacing those that are leaving the country. And I vote at every election thank you very much and I am in touch with my senators and state reps when I feel something isn't right. And yes I have met some of them. And something else Ryan, this country is built on those over paid low skilled local workers. Our foundation is built on their sweat. How you can call them over paid when you have never sat there in their place is a little unfair I think. You start out at minium wage. You have a quota that has to be made everday. Anything over that you get paid a little extar for each piece. There is no one over paid, they earn their pay piece by freaking piece. And did you know that circuit boards are made by unskilled workers from the film stip they start out as to the finished board with all its little componets being ready to ship for it next installation. Don't know why I am including that, just a little triva that poped into my head. Anyway, my point of this whole thing is that I do blame our goverment for the shape we are in. All of them, just not one person.
     
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  14. Mitzs
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    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    I agree with you about people that won't take jobs because they think they are too good for them. I wasn't raised that way and my brothers and I have worked some ****ty jobs till we could find one that we liked. If someone can't do that then they desver to go hungry as far as I am concern. But if the jobs are not there? What do they do then? This is what my whole point is about in this thread. Companies aren't just leaving in my area but the whole country. A man just killed himself and his family. 3 of which were kids the other day because he could not find another job after being laid off for a while. He was not a unskilled worker. People are abonding their children at safe heavens because they can't raise them. This country is falling apart and it affecting all skill ranges. As for Bush his stuff has to pass though congress just as congress bills has to pass his desk. I still don't think he has done a bad job considering what he has had to work with and the issues he has to deal with. I would vote for him again if I could. :biggrinYep I said it.
     
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  15. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Mitz
    the US economy has not been built on the sweat of low skilled workers for decades
    its not a farming country anymore!

    It's built on the back of the middle class, not the lower class

    and if I can get the same done overseas for half the price? then yes they are overpaid, they are working in an industry no longer fit for the American work force due to the wage requirements of said american workforce

    think that's elitist? think again, that's reality!

    You say the government has not created new jobs for those unskilled workers, that's not what governments are for, the market however has created MILLIONS of new jobs in entirely NEW INDUSTRIES but unskilled workers are exactly that, unskilled! the chances of them being able to adapt are slim, but I don't care about unskilled workers, I don't care to make excuses for why they are unskilled, or why they are unable to grasp the changes required in the modern world, I quite frankly don't care, it's not my problem and as I said before, I'm not trying to win anyones vote

    The fact is the unskilled american workforce doesnt mean a whole lot, its the middle tier adaptable professionals that need to be nurtured and their talents directed into new industries as and when they are created

    You think I didn't start out on minimum wage once upon a time? I did, but I spent my free time becoming better, improving myself to the point I'm at now, as have millions of other american and western middle class workers thats the difference between skilled workers and unskilled workers.

    I applaud you for taking an active role in your local civics though, all to often people do not, and they wonder why we are the way we are, good for you, and whilst our views may not be the same, atleast your taking a stand and making your voice heard.
     
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  16. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Mitzs, I have worked in factories and on assembly lines for minimum wage and I totally agree the conditions are awful. However around the world many people are starving on less than a dollar a day, these people deserve a future too no ?

    Many of the processes you describe are not the modern mass production processes that are used on high volume production lines. Flow or Wave soldering is now used to solder most of the components.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_soldering

    You mention clothing, take suits for example nearly every suit you can buy in the western world for less than £1000 has been made largely by a machine.

    Look at cars, a process started by an american Henry Ford, largely mechanised, robotic laser welding, robotic painting.

    So many of these jobs don't exist anymore, and if they do there is no way they can compete, a highly manual process would be an even greater argument to use cheap labour. Nearly all manual parts of electrical components are put together by the small and nimble hands of chinese women. Any company that refused to use such practices would be uncompetitive and go out of business in short order.

    What about all the shoes made with child labour around the world that get sold for top prices to westerners in western shops ? Where do you think the profit goes ?

    A small amount of market protectionism may be part of the solution but it is not the solution, the west already has many favourable deals that exploit banana republics.

    I see that one of the biggest problems in america is that it is a land of extremes.

    Look at this :- "Congress grills Lehman boss over 500-million dollar wages"

    Americas view on communism seems to have killed off any socialist ideals, if the money still in america were more evenly distributed there would be less issues. The USA is still in the top six of the worlds richest nations, many US corporations make more than hundreds of the worlds economies.

    I stager to think what the preliminaries and election campaigns must be costing, geez what a total waste of money. Spending all that money to get your message across, which in the case of Palin is that you don't have a message. If only they spent it on hospitals and schools...
     
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  17. delorean

    delorean Megabyte Poster

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    Gotta love Al-Jazeera for their totally open news reports. Check out this beauty featuring some sub-human doinks at a Republican rally. How come so many of these types of videos are being posted on the net as each day passes? (besides the obvious).

    CLICK HERE (WARNING: CONTAINS SOME OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE)
     
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