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training providers/braindumps and money

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by greenbrucelee, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    You see people come one here everyday saying that a training provider will get them certified in so many certs in only a few week and it only will cost 3 or 4 grand.

    How are these companies doing this?

    Are they providing their students with Braindumps?

    I mean if someone fails and they have been gauranteed to pass 3 or 4 certs in 8 weeks, then does this person have a shot at legal action.

    Or are they gauranteed because the company is letting them cheat without them realising?

    It seems to me either a vast amount of people are being ripped off or they are cheating.

    What does anyone else think.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  2. Tinus1959

    Tinus1959 Gigabyte Poster

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    I work for a training provider and I don't let my students cheat. It takes about a year to get certified MCSE if the student works hard. In my opinion it is simply not possibel to get al the material in your head in 6 weeks unless you allready have all the knowledge and just need to pass the exams.

    I never attended a bootcamp, so I do not know if they cheat or let students cheat.
    The problem is that I can not garantee that my students cheat on me. I do not know what they do at home.
     
    Certifications: See my signature
    WIP: MCSD, MCAD, CCNA, CCNP
  3. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I am glad your honest but I am not sure about others who will be in your line of work.

    I am sure you have noticed that new member join here saying thing like Advent are chaging me 4 grand to do the A+,N+ MSCE in 8 weeks.

    I want to know how this is possible without cheating.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  4. ajs1976

    ajs1976 Byte Poster

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    Are they just taking the courses? Or are the taking the exams too? 8 weeks for all those courses sounds right, but if they are taking the exams too I don't know when they would study.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, CCEA, Sec+, L+, N+
    WIP: 2008, CAG, or CCENT (not sure)
  5. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I always thought that would mean the exams too.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  6. Tinus1959

    Tinus1959 Gigabyte Poster

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    Well, as I said before, if they allready have the knowledge.
    I 'studied' about 1 week for my A+. N+ and S+ certification. After 18 years as a trainer, you have the knowledge to take some exams without study.
    I am MCSE, so I'm pretty sure I can do the MCDST exams without to much problems. I'm sure BosonMichael will tell you the same.
    For new products (Vista, server 2008 and exchange 2007) I have to study, but I can build on my knowledge that I allready have.
    It's easier to learn 2003 server if you know 2000 inside out.

    So I guess for experienced system engineers it can be done, but definitely not for all people attending the bootcamps.
     
    Certifications: See my signature
    WIP: MCSD, MCAD, CCNA, CCNP
  7. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    I spent 16 months at a tech school. Not even a month into the program I found our teacher handing out TK dumps for the A+ and N+. Talk about coming unglued. The teacher and I went round for round over that one. She never did really like me after that but ask me if I give a shite.
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  8. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Yeah thats what I mean.

    People who have no IT experience or very little doing courses like A+, N+ then MSCE for only 8 weeks I dont think is possible without cheating.

    I can understand someone like yourself who has been in the business a long time doing all that but not a noob.

    Thats what I don't get, people come on here who have a little experience from using a pc at home and at school then paying a provider a lot of money then supposedly getting certified.

    How is it possible without cheating?
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  9. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    just to add a friend of mine was doing the ECDL and he said the tutor sat next to him in the exam and told him the answers.

    This gets my goat as it undermines people wanting to actually study properly.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Some teachers don't know any better. Some teachers know better, but do it to improve the percentage of students who pass the exams (which make them look better as teachers). In either case, the teacher needs to be informed... either the easy way, or the hard way... :blowingup :hammert :microwave:croc:bluegrab
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  11. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    Now thats too extreme. I don't understand why the student would be ok with that? I mean ok so you pass the exam and what you think its going to get you that 80K a year job?

    People who don't know anything about IT think that the job is like a routine. Same thing over and over again but instead of getting 25K they would be getting 80K. Thats when they somehow end up getting the job and then get let go because they can't troubleshoot or understand the technology.
     
    Certifications: A+ | CCA | CCAA | Network+ | MCDST | MCSA | MCP (270, 271, 272, 290, 291) | MCTS (70-662, 70-663) | MCITP:EMA | VCA-DCV/Cloud/WM | VTSP | VCP5-DT | VCP5-DCV
    WIP: VCAP5-DCA/DCD | EMCCA
  12. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Yeah for some reason people seem to think IT is the way to be getting mega pay packets.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  13. Mitzs
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    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    She was informed by me but did not care, that is when we went round for round. It seem to be more important to the school that people that graduated with the a+ plus all in hand. Heaven forbid anyone actually know what they were doing when they left.
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  14. VantageIsle

    VantageIsle Kilobyte Poster

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    I have a friend who is signed up on one of these"become A+, N+ MSCE computer tech in 16 months" courses. He has just returned from the N+ course this was 4 days in the training center. One day power point presentation on N+ and 3 days full of practice exams, he has passed.
    I do wonder if he will remember the details of TCP/UDP packets and the finer points of the OSI model come Janurary 2008.

    Perhaps I'm wrong thinking this, but it looks like learning to pass an exam rather that learning for building long term useful knowledge.
     
    Certifications: A+, ITIL V3, MCSA, MCITP:EST, CCENT, 70-432-SQL, 70-401 SCCM
    WIP: MCSA upgrade MCITP:SA then EA
  15. skulkerboyo

    skulkerboyo Megabyte Poster

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    Bout two weeks ago I was at a site and there were 3 contractors installing new machines. I'm a building supervisor but trying to break back into IT after a long break so was really there to make sure they knew where to be. I got talking to them and asked how they had got into I.T. 2 had done IT related degrees and fell into the jobs recently (Bear in mind these guys just set em up so nothing advanced) but one (who they all regarded as the man in the know) had done the mcse. He told me it took him a while to do it. I asked how long. He said 1 month:eek:. Apparently a bootcamp. All the exams in one month!!!!! So I asked him what experience he'd had. PC world, 6 months:eek:!!!! prior to that no background. Ok alarm bells are ringing. With regards to my MCP and current studies he said not to worry I'd probably get to mcse/a eventually. He reckoned he was just a natural. Fine so I asked him to name the 5 FSMO roles. He blinked and blinked again. By the end of the chat I'd established he didnt even know the port number for https and he'd gathered I wasnt very impressed with him. The next few hours passed in stoney silence.:rolleyes: So basically hes useless. I doubt he knows the finer points of xp beyond semi advanced end user stuff. I should severely doubt that he passed without having braindumps rammed down his throat for the duration of the course. Since meeting this guy I've decided to hold off on doing anymore exams until I find gainful employment. I'm sure employers are very wary of people with lots of certs and very little or no relevant experience and can spot people like him a mile off hence why hes unpacking boxes and plugging things in off the back off a MCSE.

    Personally I'm just gonna keep reading, fiddling with my set-up and expanding my knowledge until someone gives me the break I need. I'm gonna stay away from the "feelgood factor" that comes with certs for the meantime. I've got enough for entry level which is what I'm shooting for.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:SA, MCSA 03, MCSA 08, MCTS(680+648),A+,N+,ITILV3 Foundation, ITIL Intermediate: Operational Support and Analysis
    WIP: 70-417
  16. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Just what I thought.

    Good work dude :)

    Rep given
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  17. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    You've got it, mate! :) You have seen the truth, right before your eyes, as it relates to the real world... and that's made you understand WHY employers are hesitant of people with the MCSE without experience. ;)

    I make my living off selling certification training. But I can't push certifications on people who are not ready for them, and do so with a clear conscience. Certifications are great... but only at the right time.

    Looks like you're *totally* on the right track, Boyo. :) Rep given.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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