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Since when did breast feeding become militant?

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by tripwire45, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    I didn't realize this but I guess Facebook is in a lot of hot water with breast feeding women. Facebook, in attempting to enforce its ban on posting obscene pictures on it's social networking site, has remove lots and lots of photos of bare female breasts, including some of breast feeding women.

    I guess this made a lot of breast feeding woman or supporters thereof pretty angry...so much so, that just tons of women started uploading breast feeding pics onto their Facebook sites. I guess about 20 breast feeding women held a "feed in" at Facebook's Palo Alto, California headquarters.

    Here's the link to the Time Magazine story on the subject. I thought I'd end the year with a bit of controversy (but hopefully nothing that started an all out flame war) and ask what you all think of this (if you haven't started drinking excessively yet)?
     
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  2. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    I don't have a problem with public or private breastfeeding, I'm mature and responsible enough to say that.

    Some people say that they do not want to see it, well if they do not want to see it, don't look - it's really that simple... People complain, yes, some say it's their right - it maybe, but complaining for the sake of complaining is not a good enough reason (remember Jonathan Ross's radio program, 2 people actually complained and then thousands afterward :rolleyes: ).

    Let's face it, something natural (eg breastfeeding) vs porno/erotic (flashing, topless beaches, even page 3), where's the sense? They have got to grow up...

    -Ken
     
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  3. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Rules are rules... and if you want to use THEIR site, you have to abide by THEIR rules. If the breastfeeding moms don't like it, they can start a site of their own and post all the bare breasts they want... though they should be aware of any governmental regulations, if any exist, regarding age verification for sites that display nudity. I'm pretty sure that's the hot water that Facebook wants to stay out of.
     
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  4. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    Give me breast any time of the week! ...and no, man-tits are not my type of breasts!
    !
     
  5. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    lol :)

    -Ken
     
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  6. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    One quote from the Time magazine article that I found interesting was this:
    I've never been around anyone who's been breast feeding, so I don't have any direct experience to draw from. I think if I were in a restaurant and I saw someone breast feeding, I would probably register some embarrassment or discomfort, and deliberately avert my gaze.

    Following your comment Ken that you're "...mature and responsible enough to say that", I guess that makes me immature and irresponsible. I figured it was probably just a male attitude about what a bare breast means until I read the Barbara Walters quote.

    My only "negative" experience on the subject of breast feeding takes a little explaining.

    When my wife gave birth to our twin sons (her first pregnancy), she had to have an emergency c-section for a lot of reasons I won't go into. One of the results is that she was in a great deal of discomfort after giving birth. Breast feeding was quite difficult for her. Michael was in neo-natal ICU for awhile, but David was fine right after birth. She tried and tried to breast feed him, but he just wasn't getting enough breast milk from her. My wife reluctantly switched to bottle feeding.

    About two years later, my daughter was born. At that point my wife elected to go directly to bottle feeding. I don't recall her exact reasoning or if she anticipated any problems, but when the nurse asked her about feeding my daughter and my wife responded with the fact that she was going to be bottle feeding, the nurse became quite incredulous and a bit...well, probably not "hostile", but certainly not objective in her response.

    As the husband of a woman who had just given birth, I immediately kicked into "defend the family" mode and was ready to get in the nurse's face. Fortunately, it didn't go any further, but it left me with an impression that supporters of breast feeding have a pretty bad opinion towards those who haven't or don't breast feed. Reading the various opinions of breast feeding proponents over the years has re-enforced that image for me.

    It's one thing to believe in breast feeding and to choose to breast feed your own child but it's another thing to treat those families who don't as evil.

    Going back to the Barbara Walters quote, she *didn't* say that the woman who was breast feeding should have stopped and she didn't say she opposed public breast feeding. She merely (at least as far as the quote goes) registered her own personal response to the situation. Why was she not allowed to have a personal response? Does political correctness now seek to control not only our behavior but our thoughts and feelings as well?
     
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  7. BosonMichael
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    Yep. Tolerance is no longer enough; if we don't fully accept or endorse whatever someone else believes, we get labeled all sorts of evil names. :rolleyes:

    For the record, my wife breastfed both children, and she did so in public. However, she didn't go around baring her breasts.
     
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  8. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    Because our son was born with severe jaundice, he wouldn't breastfeed, he was on the bottle since birth (kinda force feed).

    It's not the "baring breasts" or the evils that I'm concerned about, it the fact that when mothers who are feeding their babies get bullied by groups of teenages (there have been cases here in the UK). People's mentality need to change. And as for those minority that think that if you don't feed your baby via breast your evil, the same things goes for the other side (if you do...), that's another mentality that needs to change, it's what's best for the child (as well as the parent).

    -Ken
     
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  9. twizzle

    twizzle Gigabyte Poster

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    Something that seems to make teh difference is peoples "feelings".

    If a woman walks around town topless, most men and women would stare at her, more in shock and disbelieve than anything else probably, as they couldnt think taht someone would be so brazen and bold to do that.

    However if a woman was to breastfeed, ona park bench or in a restaurant, those same people would proably feel more embarassed than shocked. And people dont like to be made to feel embarassed. Its somethng that makes us uncomfatable, thats feeling we get which makes us not know where to look or what to say. In a way its slighly humiliating to be made to feel "uncomfartable". And that is why i think most people object to teh breastfeeding in public.

    If a woman wanted to walk around topless we would be all for it,a s all we'd feel is excited or shocked. If a woman wanted to breast feed, thats a big no as it makes most people embarassed! Yet both are perfectly natural (at least in a previous time!)
     
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  10. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Actually that doesn't even line up close with how the laws on discrimination apply
    THEIR rules for THEIR site are irrelevant if those RULES discriminate against something/someone

    There are plenty of pictures on facebook that many consider obscene, complain about, but no action is taken because 'just because you think its obscene doesn't mean it is', for them to then do the opposite for the breast feeding ladies would land then in the proverbial ****e

    The issue is more a case that they probably have an automated system that finds 'nude' photos and removes them, just like the old web filters that checked jpgs and gifs on the ammount of pink they contained (used to block family photos of the new babies too, lots of complaints when that happened at work lol)
     
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  11. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    like heretic? or possibly heathen?

    Personally, I dont really mind one way or the other. I've never been exposed to it, and I'm sure i would be embarassed if I were, but im not about to stop someone from doing it.

    Its simply biological. That said, other natural biological functions are considered taboo to be done in full view.

    Most women i hear do it subtly enough that you cant see any breast. It can be obvious what they are doing, but its not like anyone is seeing anything.

    On a related topic, I saw a news article about a group of mothers 'pooling' their breastmilk. They would meet up and allow each others children to be breastfed by their milk. Now, this sounds a bit gross, but there are sound biological reasoning to do this - When a mother breastfeeds, she passes antibodies onto the child. However, she can only pass on what she possesses. Giving the child to another mother to breastfeed allows additional antibodies to be passed onto the child, thus bolstering the immune system more than the mother alone can.
     
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  12. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    I suppose that's where the "passion" comes from for those who breast feed and breast feeding supporters; the idea that if someone is "uncomfortable" seeing a woman breast feed in public that this "discomfort" translates into "I think public breast feeding is 'evil'."

    I'll concede that there is some overreacting on both sides of the fence, however, overreaction tends to lead to taking excessive actions. Relegating a breast feeding woman to some dark closet to breast feed is an overreaction, but so is staging "feed-ins" at ABC studios, just because Barbara Walters made a remark about her personal feelings (as if ABC is somehow responsible for Walters' emotional responses during a plane trip).

    One question then is why at least some members of society uncomfortable with seeing a woman breast feed her baby? The other question is why must all members of society personally feel completely comfortable with public breast feeding or at least completely refrain from expressing any personal embarrassment? I suspect the answer to both questions has to do with people wanting control.

    In a perfect world, breast feeding would not be an issue that you would either have to shy away from or (pardon the obvious "feeding" pun) shove down everyone's throat.

    We don't live in a perfect world. More's the pity.

    As Fergal says though, just because an activity is "natural" and "biological" does not automatically give it sanction to display the activity in public.
     
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  13. Arroryn
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    This argument isn't a million miles removed from the feminists complaining about the 'Fat Princess' game mentioned a few months ago on the forums.

    It's just a different group, with a different problem.

    People, especially men, don't particularly have an 'overall' issue with bared breasts in this country - on paper. Page 3 of the Sun, the Sport, heck, most of the tabloids and pulp-press womens' magazines splay scantily-clad women on their pages every day of the week.

    The difference and the issue with breastfeeding is it's 'live' as it were - to paraphrase someone else, you don't expect to see a topless woman walking down the street.

    But (I believe) it is possible to breastfeed discretely in public. I have friends that can verify this.

    My Mum didn't breastfeed, as far as I know - I certainly wasn't, as I spent the first six months of my life in SCIBU. But there certainly wasn't the hostile stigma attached to bottle feeding as opposed to breastfeeding that you seem to have encountered, Trip. Do you think maybe that particular attitude is changing with the times?

    I have a very *romantiscised* and wholly pessimistic opinion on the subject. We live in a very segregated society - public displays of affection seemed to be grumped on and let's face it - breastfeeding is a very intimate, very personal expression between the mother and baby. Could it be that - the public display of the relationship - be what is making people more uncomfortable?

    As for the pictures being pulled on Facebook - it should be possible to 'photograph' the act without having a picture of the fully exposed breast (I would have thought :notsure: ) so presumably those would be left alone?

    I don't think they're being targeted either - again, I've had friends who have put up, ahem, questionable pictures, and they were all pulled within days.

    For pictures of a pornographic nature to appear on the site, no matter what the intent of the content, would undoubtedly change the licensing and operating position of the site. Behind any law they may have in place, adult websites invariably have an "over 18s only" announcer. Regardless of the fact that there is no way to verify that, Facebook allows membership under the age of 18 - and so possibly providing minors with access to pornographic images would put them in hot, hot water. The law is the law, and you can't really argue with that.

    And as an addendum to the argument as a whole, I have no problem with breastfeeding as a concept, though I don't doubt I would feel mildly embarassed to see it in public - I would simply avert my gaze.
     
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  14. JonnyMX

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    In the interests of research I followed the link in the news story and looked at some of the photos that they are referring to.

    It was a horrific experience.

    Firstly all the women were so fat that the nipple was the only way that the poor kid could tell where the chins ended and the stomachs began, and secondly most of the children feeding seemed to be about 10 years old.

    It's left me feeling a bit queezy.

    :sick

    On a serious note, I have absolutely nothing against breastfeeding in public and can't see why anyone would.
    What does get me a bit is when people get all militant about how it's their right etc etc. Come on, just do it or don't do it. You don't have to stand in the middle of the street with a flag.

    It's a bit like standing outside a public toilet and announcing that you are going to take a dump as is your right as a citizen. We don't care.

    In defence of facebook, if you have a rule, you have a rule. Anyone joining up has to agree to stick to your rules and if they don't want to, they can go elsewhere.

    Haven't people got anything better to do?

    The other thing that bugs me is people who just get on the band wagon because of something they've heard about somewhere else which sounded like it might have been disgraceful so I'm going to start a petition and go and shout at a politician or something.

    Somebody has already mentioned the Jonathan Ross thing. It's like reading about a mugging in the paper then phoning the Police to say that it's disgraceful and that it shouldn't be allowed.

    A bit like my Gran really...
     
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  15. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Oh, and Trip...

    Are you saying that militants aren't allowed to breast feed?
    Are you?
    Eh?
    In public?
    Come on then.
    Want some of this? Eh?

    Outside, now.

    And I've taken my shirt off now in support of all the militants and their right to breast feed if they want to or not if they don't. As long as it's not against their religion or anything.

    Cos they're a funny lot those militants.

    Oh, and don't get me started on immigration.
    I was reading in the Daily Mail the other day...
     
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  16. Markyboyt

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    I have witnessed ladies breast feeding in public and it does make me feel uncomfortable as you are constantly ensuring your not looking, but it is only in the same way that if, say, somebody with an obvious mental illness gets on the bus or train, then you feel uncomfortable and ensure your not looking at them.

    Personally I don't think its wrong to breast feed in public, discretely, but I think the lady should try and do it somewhere a little off route in a way (I know that sounds really bad but I will try and clarify). By that I mean don't stand at a shop counter, or sit in the window or something, try and find a table at the side. The queue at the supermarket till would not be a good place for instance.

    I also don't think people should be frowned upon either way, its a personal choice whether to breast feed and its up to the mother whether she does unless circumstances restrict of course.
     
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