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Re-training in Web

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Maxelcat, Dec 20, 2005.

  1. Maxelcat

    Maxelcat Bit Poster

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    Hello all

    been teaching for 15 years and can't stand it anymore. Had to leave due to ill health.

    I am considering re-training in IT with a view to working in web design.

    I have some experience of HTML, Javascrip, CSS and web design, but only a a glorified hobby (I wrote a web based course for 14/15 year olds that was sold to 3 schools)

    I have approached two course providers and been told that there are many, mnay jobs for webdesigners with qualifications, a lot of which are probably contract and involve working from home (paradise!!!)The same is true it seems for networkers and Cisco people (not that I know much about this side of things) apart from the working at home bit!!!

    Is it true that there is lots of demand for web designers? Are they just trying to sell me their courses?

    I would value any comments

    Thanks

    Edward
     
    Certifications: CIW Associate
  2. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Take their claims with a pinch of salt.

    Whilst I do not know anything about the job market in web development I do know that the people from the training companies have sales quotas to meet.

    8)
     
  3. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    Ed,

    As a teacher you are used to training/learning and will pick things up quickly especially as it was always a hobby.

    There a lots of business around and they all want sites so there should be work for all! I would speak to jonnymx :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Hi Ed.

    Yes there are jobs at all levels out there for designers. But it's an ever changing industry. One minute companies want a web department, then there are cuts and they decide to outsource.

    Web design is like any other kind of design, demand fluctuates. A client may have a new product and want to update their site. A new company may start up etc, but it's a series of jobs and at times when things are tough in economic terms, the work can dry up.

    In my opinion, you're fine in studying web design, but I'd back it up with another specific skill like databases or IIS. That way you maximize the number of roles you can perform.

    BTW, I worked from home for a year, and it wasn't paradise. Although it is possible, you're better off in an office where you have access to resources that you may need.

    To be a pure 'designer' you have to have a flair for making things look good. Given a blank canvas, can you come up with something eye-catching and appealing? It's really hard to learn that bit, some people have got it and some haven't. Be realistic about what your abilities are, don't make your life difficult.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  5. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    go to jobserve and type in "work from home" or telework and see how many hits you get

    cross reference with the BS from the sales people.

    Make your own mind up as to the value of the course without regard to ideas like 'guaranteed jobs' or huge salaries or workign from home..
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  6. Maxelcat

    Maxelcat Bit Poster

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    Thanks for the replies.

    I had a look on the jobserve site, and there do seem to be lots of jobs. I am going to have to take quite a cut in salary though, which isn't unsurprising really - I had gone a long way in teaching. And I can live with this, if there are prospects (which again, there seem to be...)

    Has a 41 year old really got a chance?
     
    Certifications: CIW Associate
  7. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    This has come up a few times, and the answer is 'it depends who you work for'.
    A lot of places will give you credit for maturity, life experience etc and you have a good chance at getting in ahead of someone fresh out of college who hasn't worked out the virtues of getting to work on time.

    Howerver, if the company designs websites for skateboarders and the average employee age is 16 then you may as well forget it. If the person interviewing you is the same age as your son and calls you 'dude' you might want to get your coat.

    Joking aside, the job you get will depend on your ability more than your age.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  8. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    maxelcat, 2 things I'd look for are

    1 - do they want CIW - see just how many jobs want it. (I believe it's a waste of space myself...)
    2 - how many allow entry level staff to work from home (my guess is damn few)

    Those work from home jobs are either envelope stuffers or consultants..
    us mere mortals tend to have to travel to work sadly..
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  9. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    I seem to get this impression too. The last person i spoke to said he did the CIW but it teaches you about e-commerce in general rather than web design. Just my 2 p' worth :tune
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  10. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    no, there's 3 modules for CIW "Master web designer"

    one is e-commerce
    the others are site designers (learn how to use apps) and CIW foundations (2 days xhtml) 3 days hardware etc...

    not very useful

    if you want to get into web DESIGN, do a recognised 3rd level design course, then learn the IT applications later...
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  11. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Maxelcat, Ditto what Simon says they tend to over excaudate the market to get people to sign up. Maybe a good idea would be to look in the local newspapers and recruitment websites to see if web designing jobs come up in your area a lot. That way you will have a better idea of your chances in getting a job and the frequency that they crop up.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  12. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Please be considerate when rubbishing qualifications.
    I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but there are a number of people here who are, or have, been studying CIW.
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I'm sure I would offend some people if I said A+ was 'farting about with a screwdriver'.

    But I wouldn't, because I haven't done A+.
    I really enjoyed CIW, and it was the stepping stone that got me started on the path to the job I'm now in, which is exactly where I wanted to be.

    CIW is a great start for people who want to get into web design, the same way that A+ is an excellent start for people wanting to get into MCSE terratory.

    Don't look at CIW as a qualification that will be required for a job application, but think about what you learn while studying it.
    I'm in a position now where I can recruit designers if I need them, and I would happily put someone with a CIW certification on the top of the pile.

    Sorry if I seem over-sensitive but it's been a long day...
    No offence meant or taken.

    :inv
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  13. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    Jonny, I have to stand by my assertion that CIW has little value. (except as you say as a way to generally learn) I say this because I have yet to see many job adverts requiring CIW - try a jobserve search if you want to check, but I found 0. In contrast MCSE had over 600.

    Additionally, the course content is, to say the least, strange! CIW foundations spends 2 days or so going over A+/Network+ related content which is pretty much pointless for the vast majority of wannabe designers. Then it goes into a day or so of playing with outlook express/internet explorer/netscape, which is cool but hardly challenging. Finally, on the last 2 days you get introduced to XHTML. Let me say that you'll need to put a lot of extra solo practice in to become accomplished in XHTML.

    OK, site designer - probably the most useful of the 3 modules, it focuses on the applications that you'd likely use. Note, its not really a design course, rather a how to use the application course.

    Finally ecommerce covers various ground including the ever so useful US legal system. Yup, no localised version so the stuff you learn is less useful than it could be.


    OK, so thats my gripes with the content. So you got certified, as I say, jobs requiring CIW are thin on the ground. Employers don't seem to care. So what do they want.. I reckon a good portfolio is a good start. A design qualification would be great also. You can teach almost anyone the mechanics of using software, but if they don't have a designers eye for what works, forget it...

    So, CIW is fine to pick up some basics, but dont hedge your bet that employers will be that impressed if you haven't got a portfolio and/or a design qualification. Just my opinion...

    oh, and there's 23 jobs for screw driver farters :D on jobserve!

    And johnny, as you said, no offence meant or taken, it's cool that CIW helped you. I merely think it's not the best way to get started in that industry for the reasons mentioned above.
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  14. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    At the end of the day all certs have their place. CIW is useless for me as I'm a support/network engineer just like A+/Network+ is useless for a web designer. I just think when slating a cert respect that others have put a lot of time, effort and money into doing certs for various reasons and that should be respected (that isn't pointed at anyone it's just a general opinion).

    I don't think of my certs as the be end and end all but they do help with my knowledge and skills and lead onto bigger and better things. I really think that even if I learn just one new thing with doing a cert that I previously didn't then it's worth learning it...:)
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  15. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Ha Ha! Excellent! :rocks

    As I said in my first post on this thread there is an element of 'you've got it or you haven't' to Web design. Some people are better able to visualize than others.
    If you can't visualize, you need to do some kind of art/design course. If you're arty and creative but don't understand some of the technical aspects, you need to do something like CIW.

    I think it's one of those things where you get out what you put in.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  16. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    All true Jonny

    I'm just trying to put things in perspective for the original poster.

    He/she needs to ask, am I arty.. do I have the artistic flair for design. As I see it the Web industry (and by industry I mean not just designers and artists, but html coders, programmers, server and database admins, project managers, etc etc) is a highly competitive industry and you need to think carefully about both qualifications and your own innate skills.

    Also, I think it's fair to say, no web course has met with much enthusiasm with employers in the same way as Cisco or Novell or Microsofts have, probably as its easier to look at a portfolio of work than assume they have what it takes from a few certs.

    That said, the certs can help you learn and may get you in the door at the bottom rung. But the poster wanted advice, and my advise is think carefully before committing to a career change - its a massive undertaking and needs to be explored carefully.

    Now, were I a salesman I'd say go for it, the world is your oyster!
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP

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