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Outsourcing Discussion

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by jk2447, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Hi guys, noticed a few of us were bringing up outsourcing and peoples experiences of it in other threads so decided to start this one.

    I work for an outsource company (French) and I think what a lot of people don't realise is that when we come along and for arguments sake say, your IT costs you 10 million a year now, we'll do it for 6 million, that in order to save 4 million, a percentage of your IT will have to offshored to a country with lower running costs.

    An example is that we are a French company, operating in the UK and if you go with us, your Network Support may be done in Poland. Its all agreed before contracts are signed and also what people don't sometimes realise is that if X company doesn't outsource, they may go under or as was the case where I used to work, so many staff would have to go, it would cease to be the same for all anyway.

    I was tupe'd into my current company and its been the best thing that could of happened to me in terms of international opportunities, technology I've encountered and friends I've made.

    Jim
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  2. Bri1981

    Bri1981 Byte Poster

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    I was involved in an outsourcing/offshoring project last year. The company I work for has big datacenters in the Phillipines, Russia, Romania, India, Germany and the US.

    I had to work closely with the legal department, export control and infosec/data protection to explain the concepts for offshoring the servicedesk, file/print, LAN admin, voice etc then create a blacklist and a whitelist detailing what could be offshored or administered by another country and what had to stay local.

    Was a bit of a nightmare but I learnt some interesting stuff. The outcome was that pretty much everything could be moved within Europe but for the other countries there were many restrictions, if it was allowed then it would usually only be 1st line support with 2nd/3rd staying in Europe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
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  3. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    I think what most people fail to differentiate between is outsourcing and offshoring. The first can and often is beneficial to a company, especially a smaller one. The latter very rarely is, for many reasons.
     
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  4. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Fair point and what I was trying to say. Your explanation is clearer. One doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with the other. Just because you are outsourcing doesn't mean its going offshore. It seems offshoring is the thing most of us are against because it means loss of jobs in your country, problems with language barriers etc
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  5. matt645

    matt645 Bit Poster

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    And then there's 'Inshoring' which is being abused to displace indigenous workers and force down rates... But big business would rather we didn't talk about that.

    ICT Abuse

    Record four out of five jobs going to foreigners between May and June


    Immigration loophole 'exploited' by companies



    There was a pledge to put a £40,000 minimum wage cap to curb this but that includes all living expenses so would hardly make much difference in somewhere like London.

    It's a bloody disgrace that a government can let this sort of abuse go on whilst the UK's own voting public are losing their livelihoods.
     
  6. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    What about the hundred thousand British IT Consultants (like TaTa) off crusading around the world? would you rather they all came back and took your job instead? same type of evils.
     
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  7. matt645

    matt645 Bit Poster

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    Are they breaking any rules? You seem to have missed my point that non EU workers should only be allowed in under the ICT scheme if the skills can't be found within the country or the EU, 650 million people and not one fits the job spec? Funny that. :rolleyes:

    I'm going to leave this now as you seem to be in an argumentative mood, despite the reams of evidence you don't seem too bothered about your fellow workers even when the rules are being blatantly abused.
     
  8. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    Wouldn't say argumentative, just a bit concerned about how you spin the foreigners coming to the UK angle. You are making out that 4000 is a lot when it is a drop in the water, how many more go home every year? you're putting it across very one sided. What I am saying is this - it is not nearly as bad as you are making out and trying to convince everyone of.

    Are Tata breaking any rules? doesn't particularly look like it. Taking advantage of, and breaking are not the same thing (Ethics aside of course).

    I will say this though. There isn't a single person I wouldn't put out of work if they had shown little forward movement, and we all know them, the waster IT manager who hasn't done anything in years and is simply feathering his own nest.

    But 4000 is nothing and these outside people coming in to the UK to work IT are certainly not infesting the job market like you make out.
     
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  9. matt645

    matt645 Bit Poster

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    4,000?

    76,000 in 2 years and I am specifically talking about non-EU workers who are subject to rules, I'm annoyed that you suggest I'm spinning this as a 'Johny Foreigner' immigration issue as thats not what this is about. This is about a system that allows companies to bring in key workers in special circumstances where specific skills cannot be sourced locally, it is not meant to allow firms to bring in cheap labour and distort the market.

    You really should read some of the articles and understand whats going on before jumping in with both feet, the PCG wouldn't have set up a website ICTAbuse.org if it wasn't having a big impact on the UK job market.
     
  10. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
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  11. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Never seen offshoring help in commerical software development, even seen whole departments kept on abroad for years doing nothing as after first couple deliveries they were no longer trusted to write code, but the contracts were already signed by then... :rolleyes:

    Software development is hard under the best of circumstances, start adding in language, culture, timezone or location barriers and it can get much worse.

    Strangely the open source community seems to have less of these issues with distributed multi-national teams.
     
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