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New to the forum and very confused.

Discussion in 'New Members Introduction' started by zakzapakzak5, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. zakzapakzak5

    zakzapakzak5 Bit Poster

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    Hi,

    I joined this forum last week.

    I am Jack.

    I am from Southasia.

    Let me introduce myself,

    I am B.E(IT) graduate in 2006.

    During my 8 semister course,i studied different subjects like

    C,C++,java,DBMS,Computer Networks,Communication networks,network security and cryptography,

    Data communication,Distributed operating system,client and server communication,multimedia etc.

    now currently i am working as asp.net web developer from past 7 months and i m finding it out

    that i m not up to it and i m not enjoying my job.

    So i am thinking of shifting my career completely into computer networks.

    Reason:- i am 25 yrs old which is ok to shift the career,and i have just lost 7 months in asp.net as a web

    programmer.And finally i also have pre theoritical knowledge of networking.

    The main thing is where should i start from.?

    i have posted a thread in this forum asking which certification should i go for?

    i got many nice reply.thanks to all who replied.

    i got answer that i should start from compTIA A+ and N+.

    But i have covered quite a topic in my B.E.

    so do i need to do Both A+ and N+.

    My friend who studied with me did CCNA last year and got a job of networkadmin in a bank.

    similarly my other friend is currently doing MCSE.

    But i m not sure whether i spend extra money in A+ and N+ or should go directly into some higher

    certification.

    the bottom line is i have no experience (zero) in this network field.

    i have few months work experiecne in building web application in asp.net only.

    so inorder to get job too i have to be certified at first place.

    so if i do A+ and N+ then what kind of job can i apply for.

    but i dont want to start my network career from call center or Bpo.i dont want to do this job

    Is there any good job i can apply after completing A+ and N+ certification.

    Not big but not call center also.

    now later i want to establish my self as network or system admin in some ISP, bank etc.

    so which advance certification should i do later.?

    finally i want to study masters in IT( may be networking) in USA after 1.5 years.

    so could somebody suggest me which subjects to choose and which universities are good for it.

    finally which certificate shall i do to work and study in USA.?

    Is compTIA A+ and N+ is enough.

    plz help me solve the problem

    Thanks.

    jack
     
  2. bodie37

    bodie37 Bit Poster

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    Hi Jack

    Welcome to the forum. I've not used this place much, but when I have it has been both informative and friendly

    My advice would be to go for the A+ and N+ certs. With your experience you should have no trouble passing them and they do count towards the MCSA/E certification.

    Study material is not that expensive, you might even be able to find some second-hand books on ebay. Just make sure that they are the latest revisions.

    If you are looking for a job in a bank then Cisco certification will most properly be needed
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, NT4 W/S & NT4 Server MCP
    WIP: MCSA
  3. Notes_Bloke

    Notes_Bloke Terabyte Poster

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    Hi & welcome to CF:D

    NB
     
    Certifications: 70-210, 70-215, A+,N+, Security+
    WIP: MCSA
  4. AvD

    AvD Nibble Poster

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    Welcome to CF! your now on the right track!
     
    WIP: A+, MCAD
  5. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    I agree that the A+ / N+ would be a good starting point, but it only counts towards the MCSA (can be used as an elective) not the MCSE. They are highly recommended to give you a good grounding in hardware and networking concepts though.

    Not sure I follow the logic there, too much of a generalisation I think.

    zakzapakzak5: You indicated that some of your friends have gone down the CCNA and MCSE route. I personally wouldn't recommend either of those qualifications to someone who has no hands on experience. Neither would Cisco or Microsoft if you have a look on their websites for the pre-requisites. They are aimed at people who already work in the respective fields and have experience managing large networks etc..

    Just be wary of people trying to sell you expensive training courses who imply that you will walk into a well paid job. It's possible, but also highly unlikely for someone with a certification and little or no experience to be able to do that.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  6. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    I think I've already covered this on another thread that you started. I'll say this, getting the A+ and N+ are great ways to get 'industry paper' on your resume. You may not need them, but they won't hurt, and will probably help.

    As for not wanting a Call Center job, I can't tell you what to do or expect. However, if you're serious about a career change, then you have to be at least open to accept a starting position in an area of work you don't like to achieve your ultimate goal.

    Saying that, perhaps you have some contacts (didn't you say you have CCNA and MCSE friends in the industry?) that can help. Not the way I do things but that's just me 8)
     
  7. zakzapakzak5

    zakzapakzak5 Bit Poster

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    Hi,

    Thank you everybody for welcoming me as a new member and sending me some quick suggestion with

    explanation regarding the topic.

    But i got few more doubts that need to be cleared before i take A+/N+ exam.

    I agree that the A+ / N+ would be a good starting point, but it only counts towards the MCSA (can be used as an elective) not the MCSE.

    I m bit confused.

    A+/N+ only counts towards MCSA.??

    Does it mean that if i want to take MCSE certification later then experience on A+/N+ would not help me ?


    As for not wanting a Call Center job, I can't tell you what to do or expect.


    I m lost here.

    I ask this question earlier too and i want to have better picture of it.

    I mean What job role should i target or what position of job am i likely to get if i be A+/N+ certified?

    or as what job role should i start my career with?

    I have made up my mind that i will do A+/N+ pretty soon.

    But without pre knowing what job you would likely to get doing this certification is just like shooting the

    target in the dark right? So It would be great if i know its role and could use my time searching for the

    respective job while i am studying for the A+/N+ exam.

    also can somebody explain what is the role of MCSA,MCSE,MCDST and CCNA?

    I mean what kind of role does the person play with above certification.?

    In which field does above certification useful?

    and which certification should i go for after doing A+/N+?

    i m new and need to start my IT career soon.so very confused where to start and what to do?


    Thanks.

    Jack.
     
  8. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    The double-spacing & format is a bit of a pain to read, can that be cleaned up? :dry
    I’m not a Microsoft guy, but I believe the A+ & N+ count as electives towards MCSA; which you can obtain on your way to the MCSE. Note both MCSA and MCSE are programs for experienced IT techs – meaning real work experience, not controlled lab environments.

    What are you lost about? You have some schooling behind you, that will help you get in and eventually advance, but everybody (with some exceptions to the rule) will begin at the same level (entry-level). In my opinion the role you want to aim for is helpdesk. The A+ and N+ will not guarantee a job in anything. However, it will prepare you (and show employers) with knowledge to assist you in your daily activities as a helpdesk technician (among other roles).

    As a high overview (as stated I’m not a Microsoft pro), the MCDST to troubleshoot Windows desktop platforms. The MCSA is to mantain Windows networks and systems. The MCSE is the expert level and includes design & implementation. Note, These are what you asked about, but there are many other MS certifications (i.e. MCDBA; MCSD; etc…). The CCNA is Cisco’s networking Associate certification. Although it’s low in Cisco’s hierarchy, the average candidate has about 12-months of working experience before attempting the test. With amount of knowledge tested it’s not surprising to read the unofficial average is 2 attempts before passing (at least that’s what I heard 2 years ago).

    The point of all this is after the A+ and N+ the choice is really yours. Where do you want your career to go? From various technologies to being vendor specific or neutral, there are so many choices that I can’t answer it for you; and you probably can’t either yet! That’s why it’s suggested to get your feet wet (entery-level role) and get a taste to see what you want to do (experience it).
     
  9. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    To add onto what Sunn said... getting an advanced certification, such as the MCSE, will not automatically make you an expert, nor will it make you qualified to do jobs related to the MCSE. Certifications without the appropriate amount of real-world experience are useless.

    So how do you get into IT and advance? Start out in an entry-level IT job and work your way up. Gain certifications that are relevant to what you can do... not simply what you want to be doing. Certifications validate experience; they do not create it.

    Best of luck to you.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. zakzapakzak5

    zakzapakzak5 Bit Poster

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    Thanks Sunn.

    What is the role of helpdesk technician?

    and how is it different with call center jobs?

    Coz here in my place there are few call center jobs.

    but ive not heard about helpdesk.

    so just wondering if they both are same.

    thanks.

    jack.
     
  11. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    Well a call centre job would typically be classed as 1st line or level 1 support. ie fielding calls and attempting in some cases to fix the problem over the phone. Level 2 would involve actually going to a users PC or to a printer etc.. and fixing it in person. In a large organisation 1st & 2nd line support could well be two totally separate teams and jobs that can't be solved by the 1st line team would be passed onto the 2nd line team.

    A+/N+ and MCDST would all be suitable and relevant to 1st & 2nd line jobs (generally speaking of course).

    3rd line support or level 3 would typically involve supporting and maintaining the IT & Network infrastructure. This is roughly where the MCSA would fit in.

    Some organisations as mentioned have teams that only deal with a particular tier of support and some (like my own) have people that deal with problems at all levels. Myself and WagnerK who also posts here are 1st, 2nd & 3rd line support all rolled together.

    As for your confusion over the A+/N+ and how it fits in with the MCSA / MSCE.

    The A+/N+ count as an elective for the MCSA, I used them for this purpose myself. You need to pass 4 exams to get the MCSA (3 core and 1 elective). The A+ & N+ can count as the elective, as can the MCDST or a few other Microsoft exams (see their website for this info).

    The MCSE requires 7 exams to pass it, and the 3 core exams from the MCSA count towards this. Unfortunately the A+/N+ doesn't, nor does the MCDST. Some of the MCSA electives DO count towards the MCSE though.

    So if you did the A+/N+ and the 3 core MCSA exams, you would still need to pass another 4 exams to achieve the MCSE. It can be confusing I know. It will make sense eventually though. :)

    p.s. Sunn, good answer, rep added!
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  12. zakzapakzak5

    zakzapakzak5 Bit Poster

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    Thanks Modey for the explaning the concept in a simplest way,

    also 'Hi' to everyone,

    I am still confused with call centre and help desk job.

    I dont know the real defination of call centre jobs.

    i am not sure whether all call center jobs are related to networking or not.

    The reason i asked this is because,some of my friend here works in a call centre and they have a role of

    phone marketing(for website marketing) rather than

    solving networking/computer problem.And those call centre dont even ask you for any certification or college

    degree.you just need to be good in english.thats it.

    so i m not sure whether this is where i should start my IT career or look for the callcenter job that is

    related to IT/Networking field.

    What should i do?

    Plz give some advice.

    Thanks.

    Jack.
     
  13. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Call centre & help desk can be the same thing i,e you are on the end of the phone resolving issues all day long. Sometimes with help desk you may actually leave your desk to be involved with resolving an issue but if its first line support then you wont as its upto to the higher level people i.e 2nd.3rd line to fix the issue in person.

    As regards to networking and as was said on your other thread most people start of in support before being introduced to network support not many people start of in networking. You have to start at the bottom.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  14. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Jack, you're going to have a difficult time to find an entry-level job that deals with networking. If you can find one, that'd be great... but I'd recommend that you get your foot in the door SOMEWHERE, even if it's not the ideal place. Gain some experience, and then get another job, perhaps doing desktop support... THEN get a job working with servers... THEN get a job where you can mess with the network all day long if you want! :D One step at a time... crawl, then walk, then run.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  15. zakzapakzak5

    zakzapakzak5 Bit Poster

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    Thanks for the suggestion.

    One more question.

    I have decided to take A+ and N+ exam soon.

    But i just want some advice on where do i start from?

    In my area there are A+ and N+ training institute.

    So should i join the classes? or should i study by myself?

    I dont know whether A+ and N+ exam are practical based learning or theory based?

    If its a theory based then i could skip the classes and study independently my myself.

    That saves money.

    If its a practical based learning then i should join the classes regardless of how much do they charge.

    So i am confused how should i learn and prepare for the exam?

    considering these a lower level certification,

    Is it possible to practice and learn at home?

    if it had been a MCSA or MCSE,i would have taken classes blindly.

    But i dont know what should i do in this case?

    i have a computer at home.

    but i dont have network devices like hub,router etc etc.

    So i would be thankful if somebody could help me decide.

    Thanks.

    jack.
     
  16. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    After reading this thread it seems to me that the logical fallacy of certification == job is being made. That's a bad way to try to use certifications.

    If you want to get certified use it as a way to gain as much hands-on experience as you can by working your way through the certification process in a computer lab. Just studying books to pass a test is a sure way to make your cert less valuable. Why? Because you will have no hands-on experience at what you're studying, and there is a huge difference between reading a book about AD and GPO's and trouble shooting an AD installation or a problem with GPO's.

    Being able to pass a test is no guarantee of having the skills needed to keep any job you get. So, do as much hands-on as possible and you'll greatly improve your chances at both getting and keeping a job.

    I don't know if you're what your situation is, but you might also try to find a paid, or even unpaid, internship. With the right employer it can be a very good way to land a permanent job, and even if it doesn't get you that you will gain hands-on experience that you badly need. It sort of kills two birds with one stone.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  17. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    Good advice Freddy!
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  18. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    The exams are based on theory, but they're much easier when you have actually worked on a PC before (or in the case of Network+, seen a network work).

    Freddy's advice above is absolutely solid; certifications don't magically get you a job. Get as much hands-on experience as you can... even if it's at home. An internship in a real-world IT environment would be ideal.

    You can study independently, yes. In fact, that's what most of us here recommend. You do not need to attend an expensive training course.

    You can even study for upper-level certifications at home.

    For the A+, I recommend the A+ All-in-One Study Guide by Mike Meyers and PC Technician Street Smarts by James Pyles.
    For Network+, I recommend the Network+ Study Guide by David Groth.

    Those devices are very inexpensive. That said, you don't absolutely HAVE to have them to study for Network+.

    Take things one step at a time... focus on the A+... THEN pursue Network+. Worry about Network+ later.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  19. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    When you go for the N+ you don't need a real network at home you could get virtual pc or vmware and have a virtual network like me :)
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?

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