1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New Orleans

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by Phoenix, Sep 2, 2005.

  1. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    Another week, another disaster
    I have been following the mess in New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, since it started to unfold last weekend, and the story has not been a pretty one

    The majority of new orleans is based below sea level, and is encompassed by water, with the mississippi running straight through the middle. Whilst Katrina spared the city a direct hit, the resulting flooding caused the levees that protect the city to burst, flooding most of the city, and drowning hundreds of people

    It's been deemed as one of americas worst natural disaster, but I am unsure if this is due to the ferocity of the storm, of the resultant action, here we are, almost a week on, and FEMA still havn't set up a worthy command and control center, gangs of punks shoot at rescue helicopters, and 'battle-hardened' national guard troops armed with m16s have needed to be drawn in, not to help rescue workers, but to help protect them from the thugs

    Is this what it has come to? is this how americans respond to natural disaster?
    We have people in california bitching that thier tax money is being spent sending aid to new orleans, people looting shops, not for food, but for cd players and other valuables, carjacking and rape is reportedly increasing across the city :eek:

    There are people pushing and cramming, and threatening one another for places on buses, whilst elderly people from a nursing home are left in the squalor that remains of the superdome

    Whatever happened to the United in United States?

    There was once a time that the people of america banded together and defeated the british army, not through strength of arms, but through sheer persistence and the belief that they were fighting for something better, those days ofcourse are long gone, but is there nothing of that attitude left?
    America can have troops on the ground in another country in under 3 days, but it cant get school buses to evacuate people for a week? and when they get there you have to keep an eye on your wheels when you stop for fear of them getting robbed by a shotgun wielding thug?

    Whilst my thoughts are with those suffering, and those dedicating thier time and perhaps lives to help, I cant help but feel somethings not quite right, when people cant just think of anyone but themselves at a time like this.

    Someone needs to fix that United part before it all goes to shite
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  2. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

    6,199
    125
    199
    Well said.
     
  3. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    Well, yeah the spirit still is alive in the US. You see how unpopular it is though when I write on spirit around here. Everyone disagrees with it. Nobody thinks people ought to defend themselves, fight back when the criminal element tries to take over. You are seeing what happens when the general public is taught that the government is the sole provider for their security, livlihood, and support, and then the central authority is removed.

    The thugs are a graphic representation what happens when the risk vs reward ratio for crime goes down and people have been taught for a couple of generations that they are entitiled to things, not that they have to earn things. A sense of entitlement is absolutely the worst thing any society can engender its people.

    However, you are also seeing the best in many of the people in the US too. You see that private citizens from Florida have brought in gas and supplies and are selling it at cost. You see many people helping out. There are many private citzens opening their homes and taking in strangers. 20,000 volunteers showed up at the AstroDome on Houston when there was a request for volunteers to help set it up. The Salvation Army is there big time. The churches are providing volunteers at the shelters to provide people to do the cooking and distribution of food.

    The other thing you may not realize is that almost every major arterial into and out of the region was closed due to flooding, trees down, heaps of rubble, etc... and 90% of the roads and streets in the area are simply impassable. And last but not least you have to remember the scope of this disaster. It covers 90,000 square miles, that's 233,100 square kilometers, and all forms of communication are no longer working in the hardest hit areas. This leads to major problems.

    I ask you, what do you think would happen in the UK if 233,100 sqare kilometers of that country were demolished over night? How long do you think it would take to get a recovery effort rolling? How long do you think it would take to clear the roads and streets so rescue people could get around? Do you really think that 3 days is extraordinarily slow? I don't. The logistics of a problem like this are immense and they take time. There just isn't any way around it.

    As to greedy people bitching about their tax money being spent to help other people I'm positive that this phenomenon is not limited to the US. I'll bet there are many in Britain who are just as greedy and selfish. That's human nature, not just American nature. I've read on this site about the British hooligans. They would be doing the same thing the American hooligans are doing. Once again, it's perverted human nature, not just perverted American nature.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  4. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    13,493
    179
    287
    Unfortunately, when a ship is sinking, the rats come out in droves. Popular media tends to report on how negative everything is but there are also countless acts of bravery in every disaster situation including this one. I prefer to focus on the compassion I have for the victims rather than the evil that some will do. I also (if possible) would like to see this thread not decend into a battle over which nation, culture, whatever is better or worst. Remember, alot of people are dead. A lot of people are missing. A lot of people are homeless and have nothing left. If you really care about those who are hurting, here are places that are trying to help:

    https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp

    http://www.noahswish.org/

    http://www.thehungersite.com/

    http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/

    http://www.mercycorps.org/
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  5. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    I agree fully trip, and my emphasis on america was not intended to cause offense to any american, I know the spirit that is there, I've seen it, but this is the first time I have seen anything decent into what it has decended into, america was founded by people banding together, and througout its early history the same happened, perhaps whenever a civilisation reaches a certain size you end up getting the ones that dont care, and over time they balance each other out to a 50-50 median, but its the history of america that I was trying to highlight, the attitude that grew it into what it is, not how another country would re act, sorry if it caused offense/came across in the wrong light

    Freddy, thanks for that perspective, whilst I try and cover as many news outlets as possible, they do indeed post a somwhat negative view, and your input into the good things has brightened it all up somewhat, its great to see people pulling out the stops to help there fellow citizens, whichever country they are from (the term citizen to me defines a citizen of humanity, where all are equal)

    I just remember how much coverage the Tsunami got on this site, and very little had been said about the devistation in the US up until now, I wanted to start the ball rolling :)
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  6. Aureilius

    Aureilius Byte Poster

    118
    1
    22
    What aid agencies are getting involved? Is this being dealt with strictly 'in house' ?

    Surely we (UK) & others can spare some troops to help out. Maybe engineering/rescue & medical specialists?

    While I don't doubt that the govt. are doing their level best to sort this out- it must be a logistical nightmare- I'm dismayed & almost disgusted at the time taken for meaningful help to arrive.

    As far as looting goes, I suppose looting for food/water/shelter medical supplies is to be expected. The looting of other things must be items to barter with.

    Worrying really, that when civilisation collapses, we revert so quickly to our base instincts.
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: A+
  7. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    My personal feeling is if there is anything that is actually very slow in the response time it can most likely be laid directly at the door of FEMA. My wife deals with FEMA on a regular basis as she does social work for non-profit agency, St. Vincent DePaul, a Catholic church agency. Her experience with the bureaucrats of FEMA has been anything but pleasant. The midlevel managers in that organization are the stereotypical bureaucrat who is just smart enough to read a rule book, but not smart enough to know there is a time for action when rules must be laid aside to get things done. Typical FEMA reactions to requests for anything out of the ordinary are that all paperwork must be done in triplicate, and then when that is done to their satisfaction, which may or may not coincide with FEMA's own written rules, they will deign to act. The typical FEMA bureaucrat that my wife has had to deal with is exceedingly arrogant, self-important, and loves all paperwork for it seems the more paperwork they have the more they can justify their jobs.

    If anyone has been following the news lately you will notice that anything that was said in the public relations department up to the time Bush said that the response was unacceptable it was said by the head of FEMA. Since Bush took things over the head of FEMA is almost invisible and is never to be found at any of Bush's press conferences. The head of FEMA was also very conspicous by his absence during Bush's tour of Mississippi and Louisiana this last week. I think, and I have nothing other to base this upon other than my perceptions of what has happened and my knowledge of FEMA bureaucrats, is that they were being their usual arrogant selves and demanding tons of paperwork to be completed before they would release anything. I do know that a couple of FEMA press conferences I saw they were talking about necessary paperwork for people to get money for rebuilding homes and the like, and they had yet to pull anyone out of New Orleans. Bush appears to have completey bypassed FEMA to get things done quickly.

    As to what all agencies are in on this, the most visible ones in the press are the Red Cross and the Salvation Army. I know of at least a couple of others that are very good at this sort of thing too. One is the group of Cathoic relief agencies and the other one from the Seventh Day Adventists called ADRA. I don't know if the Southern Baptists have an actual relief agency but I do know that their churches are providing many of the volunteers who are cooking and serving the food in many of the shelters.

    One more thing on this subject that is getting very little press is that Slidell, Louisiana has been getting basically nothing in the line of help and relief yet. It's pretty ironic too because you see nothing in the press but accusations of racism and class distinction being the source of any slowness in the response, yet Slidell is mainly middle to upper class white people and they haven't gotten anywhere near the help New Orleans has. That town is full of water too, at least it was a couple of days after the storm hit. There was 6 to 8 feet of water in the pictures I saw of it. It got a direct storm surge from Lake Pontchartrain that turned a large percentage of the town to nothing but rubble, and caught a portion of the eye wall of the storm where the worst of the winds are. It is basically destroyed from the pictures I've seen from it. What didn't get hit with water and wind got hit with high enough winds that the vast majority of the homes are not habitable.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  8. Jamin.

    Jamin. Nibble Poster

    95
    1
    0
    Sorry to throw this in as I am just about to go away but...
    My sympathies and thoughts go out to all suffering.
    Will Bush now sign the Kyoto Protocol / enforce some sort of REAL emmisions reduction?
    As it is now accepted that the severaty of storms such as this is increasing due to climate change, will USA / Bush actually acknowledge that they need to do something about it?
    Jam.
     
    Certifications: MCSA: Security! GCSE Nautical studies
    WIP: On a break.
  9. Aureilius

    Aureilius Byte Poster

    118
    1
    22
    "They survived Katrina. They lived through the chaos of incompetence afterwards" - Sky news.

    "I don't believe that anyone allowed us to suffer because we were African Americans" - Survivor.

    Truer words were never spoken...

    It's the incompetence that sticks in the throat. :x
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: A+
  10. Aureilius

    Aureilius Byte Poster

    118
    1
    22
    Even the cops are looting :ohmy

    link deleted at member's request.
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: A+
  11. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    13,493
    179
    287
    Just to show you a different side of humanity:
    http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/09/07/sections/local/local_web_extra/article_664888.php
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  12. Aureilius

    Aureilius Byte Poster

    118
    1
    22
    I'd hoped a moderator would have removed that link by now, or told me how I could do that..

    At the time of posting, I had no idea of the offensive comments below it. As soon as I saw them I attempted to delete it. :oops:

    I couldn't find the button to do so.

    Sorry if it caused any offence.It really was unintentional.
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: A+
  13. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    13,493
    179
    287
    Sorry, Aureilius. The button to edit your own posts is located in the lower right-hand corner of the post itself. Just click the edit button and you can change the text. I believe only mods and up can actually delete a post.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  14. Aureilius

    Aureilius Byte Poster

    118
    1
    22
    No apologies neccesary Tripwire. :)

    Many thanks (I assume it was yourself), for removing the link.

    My bad, for not properly checking it first.
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: A+

Share This Page

Loading...