MCDST and MCSA!

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Lads i heard that if you have a MCDST you can put that towards an MCSA so you would do less exams, is that true? I also heard if you have N+ and A+ again you can put does towards an MCSA and you would do less exams. I mean how many exams would you do if you didnt have MCDST and A+, N+. And how many would you do if you had MCDST, A+ and N+?

 

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The MCDST or the (A+ & N+) count as the elective element of the MCSA 2003. The MCSA would normally consist of 4 MCP's and the elective part of it is just a single MCP.

So if you do the MCDST or the A+ & N+ then you are doing more exams than if you just did the 4 MCP's but it's no bad thing to do extra. For a start it's extra cert's you wouldn't have if you just did the 4 MCP's and they are more entry level certs and are a good route into certification if you haven't tackled it before.

The Network+ is a particularly good one to have as it would give you a good grounding in topics that get very much more advanced in some of the MCSA exams.

 

can you define what you mean by an elective element?

 

For MCSA2003, you need to pass 3 core exams and 1 elective exam.

The core exams are:
1. 70-270 (win XP) or 70-620 (win Vista)
2. 70-290
3. 70-291

After that, you can choose from a couple of exams to gain the MCSA-certification. For example 70-284 (Exchange 2003), 70-431 (SQL 2005), etcetera. (of course you need to pass that exam)

Another way of this elective part is gaining the MCDST-certification or the CompTIA N+ and A+ certifiaction.

So, you're not quite right about doing less exams. For the MCDST, you need the 70-271 and 70-272, which means you have to pass 5 exams in total for the MCSA-certification.
But I understand you already are MCDST and then you are correct. Just 3 exams to pass.

Good luck on studying those three...

Guido

 

Ok i understand now and do you have to retake yoru MCDST every 3 years?

 

I don't wanna subvert this thread or anything, but can anyone explain the fuller picture on this ?

Like do you have to recert MCSA ?
Whats the plans for the replacement of the MCSA ? MCITP : SA ?
Does that expire every three years ?

 

thats a good question man!

 

As far as I am aware, the current MCDST or the MCSA 2003 don't expire and never will (in the sense that you will need to update or re-certify). I believe the new MS exams (the new Vista and Longhorn ones) will require re-certification.

MS has obviously realised it can make more money out of us this way. I'm suprised it didn't happen earlier.

 

Recert MCSA: No.
Replace MCSA: There's no clear-cut replacement. You can upgrade your MCSA to a number of MCTS certifications.
Expires every 3 years: The MCSA will never expire. The MCTS certifications will expire as the technology expires. The MCITP certifications must be recertified every 3 years, I believe.

 

You don't need to renew ANY microsoft-certification and at this moment, Microsoft is not planning to change this policy.

from http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/newgen/faq/default.mspx

Q. Will the MCSA and MCSE credentials be discontinued?

A. No. Existing MCSA and MCSE credential holders will retain their certifications, and candidates currently working toward an MCSA or MCSE are encouraged to complete their certifications. No changes are planned for the MCSA and MCSE certification credentials for Windows Server 2003. When Microsoft releases the next version of the Windows client and server products, the new credentials will follow the new structure, with a Technology and Professional series.

BUT, you can ask yourself the question if an MCSE NT4.0-certification still gives you value to the market... the same goes for the future of MCSA 2000, MCSE2003 and so on.

So, your certification will never expire, but your knowledge will!

 

MCPD is based on Visual Studio 2005 and .Net 2.0, it requires recertification, as such recertification could start as early as 2008 ! (Half the training materials have only just been finished !)

The technology has changed a fair bit since NT was released which was in 1993, thats 14 years ago ! This is not really the same as a 3 year recert requirement.
I would expect a MCSE2003 to be good for 5 years at least, in fact some companies only rolled it out in the last year, they will probably run with it for a couple of years at least.
That means a lifetime of 6-7 years. In anycase where are all these people only certified on NT ? Theres nothing to stop microsoft creating a directive requireing they describe themselves as MCSE NT, they can change the cert rules at anytime.

Does 'real' knowledge really expire? or is this just something the marketeers would have you believe ?

OO Languages - 1965
Relational Databases - 1970
Preemptive multitasking operating system - 1978
Virtual Machine - 1965
TCP/IP Standard - 1974

Do you think the knowledge of the people that developed these things is now redundant ?
If so why did microsoft decide to implement them often 10+ years after their invention, sometimes multiple times in various guises ?

OO Language - Visual C++ 1992
Relational Database - Access 1992
Preemptive multitasking operating system - Windows NT 1993
Virtual Machine - Excell/pcode 1987, CLR 1999
TCP/IP - Windows for Workgroups 1992

While these technologies have changed I suspect their creators would still recognise them and many of the standards have lasted 10+ years.

I used LDAP before microsoft even developed ActiveDirectory, I used Oracle when microsoft only had Access, Mosaic when they didn't have IE, Lotus 123 before Excell, Wordperfect before Word, various OS's before windows, you get the picture...

Does that mean people need to start taking exams because microsoft eventually got round to implementing some open standards ? Does fundamental knowledge of design, open standards, operating systems, databases, really change that much every three years ?

I'm trying not to be cynical about this but it really does look like the microsoft education program is being run largely for profit, I would think a company with their resources could afford to run the program in a more philanthropic manner and push the benefits of real education in IT.

 

Sorry, mate... Microsoft *HAS* already changed their policy, starting with the new generation of certifications, like I stated in my previous post.

From Microsoft:

 

Microsoft isn't making much money, if any, on certifications. The reason they do it is simply to have certified techs running around in the "real world" who know how to support Microsoft technologies... who tend to recommend Microsoft technologies to the companies they work for. THAT'S where Microsoft makes their money off certification... selling OSes and software.

 

So essentially we are in agreement, they favour marketing over education ? Of course a 3 year recert program is a great way to push your new technology that people may be hesitant about adopting/rolling out ?

I don't think their cert program is a loss leader, maybe they don't make alot but i'm sure they break even. From what I've read it doesn't sound like they have a huge cert team, for exams that scale like the MCSA I'd think they must make a good profit. Exams like their C++ exam were dropped due to lack of demand, so I don't think they run loss leading exams in general. If they really want to save money why have 547/548/549 exams, surely one exam and sylabus would suffice ? Why the proliferation of exams and cert paths if its not profitable, why not rationalise ?

http://blogs.msdn.com/howard_dierking/archive/2007/06/05/community-based-development-let-s-talk.aspx
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/29605/index.html

 

Microsoft has *always* been expert at marketing... they... um... "appropriate" the best ideas and then sell them to the masses... and do quite well at it.

That said, they have no problem with educating as well. Ever taken a look at the scads of free education they've got out there?

I dunno if they're breaking even or not... in any case, what good does it do to analyze it and worry about it? None.

The C++ exams were dropped for the same reason the Windows NT exams were dropped... it's an old technology, and the successor (C#) is doing well in the marketplace.

The proliferation of exams is because they want to test on specific technologies and ask specific questions regarding those technologies. Testing on backups and permissions is quite different from testing on AD, for example. That's why there have *always* been multiple exams on NT, 2000 Server, Server 2003, and now Server 2008. That hasn't changed since the dawn of Microsoft's certification program.

Similarly, testing on Web-based apps is different from testing on Windows-based apps... and when you throw in the enterprise angle, more things are changed. Yes, it's all programming... but quite different focuses. So it's not about the money... it's about ensuring that candidates are able to understand each aspect of the technology.

For the record, once you get through the slew of exams once, there's usually a single upgrade exam that'll take you through all of the individual exams. Know what the cost is? The same as a single exam... though you're testing the concepts for several exams at once. So for people who have already demonstrated their ability to take the individual exams, you can then just take upgrade exams... similar to what you propose for 547/548/549. If it were "all about the money", Microsoft wouldn't allow you to upgrade for the price of one exam... they'd string you out for several more.