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Learn English or go to jail

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by tripwire45, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    I know I inadvertently started a "war" recently with my "gun" news story, so I thought I'd deliberately "rock the boat" this time. When I first read the story, I thought "He (the judge) can't do that". Then as I continued reading, the judgment made more sense. I still think it'll get thrown out as a violation of the rights of the defendents, but it still is interesting. Here's a quote that I really liked:
    I'm posting the link to the CNN story. Tell me what you think:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/27/judge.sentence.ap/index.html
     
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  2. Mitzs
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    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    I think if they are in america wanting to be american they need to learn english. But then I also think if these are immigrants, they need to kick their theving ass back to the border and lose whatever citzenship they have gained.
     
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  3. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Well...:hhhmmm ..since it's you Trip, we let you off..but don't do it again.:p:biggrin:twisted:
     
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  4. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    Interesting story. Not sure I see anything wrong with ensuring citizens learn the official language of a country to be perfectly honest.

    Personally, I think its incredibly rude and arrogant to go to a country and not speak the official language. For a holiday situation, I tend to relax that slightly, to having at least one person in your party able to speak the language enough to get by, but if you go to a country to live, you should make an effort to learn the language. I can appreciate not being able to speak it the day you arrive, but you should learn it.

    Unfortunately, british and american citizens (especially) seem to think they are excepted from this. more so from holidays. Arrogantly assuming that everyone will (or at least should speak english). It may be the case for other citizens, but thats certainly not my experience of it.
     
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  5. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    I concur:thumbleft How do they expect to live and work in the US if they can't even speak or understand the language?:dry
     
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  6. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

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    It annoys me with people living in the UK - learn the official language or leave. May be harsh, but if they were that determined to want to stay here then they can learn it. I'm not saying loosing their "mother-tongue", just adapt to fit in with the society they live in as a whole.

    If I went to live in .... Germany say (I speak a little German so could possibly survive getting my life together) then I would, out of principle and courtsey learn German to become fluent in the language.
     
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  7. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Many don't expect to work... they just sponge off of the over-generous system. :dry

    Kudos to the judge for giving them a chance to improve their situation. But if they continue to accost people, they should be given a nice long vacation in a 3-walled room to think about their choices.

    That said, if they're illegals, they ought to be dumped onto the other side of the border.

    ...preferably from 1,000 ft. :dry
     
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  8. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Sounds bit like what's going on over here..:hhhmmm better not go down that road, makes my blood boil just to think of those wasters.:dry

    It annoys the hell out of me, when you see people who fight for queen and country like the Gurkhas and they are not allowed to live in England and yet they let in unskilled people who sponge off the social benefits...:x

    Well that's got me mad .. I guess I better go have a cool beer to calm down.:biggrin:alc
     
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  9. nugget
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    nugget Junior toady

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    Well I hope that they asked the guy that was attacked if he spoke spanish. Would have thrown a spanner in the works if he didn't!

    I would have kicked them out of the country just for the fact of what their charges were. If they can't speak english, obviously don't want to work and then conspire to commit crimes then send them back to where they came from.
     
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  10. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    Who's going to teach the Americans to speak English so they can pass it along to these criminals? :)

    Sorry, couldn't resist. :)
     
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  11. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    If you're going to move to another country, then you should learn the language in order to become a proactive and productive member of society. There should be no reason to move to another country, not learn the language and then sponge of the benefit system/comit crimes. I have no problems with people moving around, far from it (just look at me). If they do that then they should be sent back.

    And this is coming from a non-brit living in the UK :biggrin

    -ken

    d**n, I'm getting grumpy in my old age :)
     
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  12. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    Danke schön (thanks) mate.

    -Ken
     
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  13. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    Since the consensus is that all newcomers should learn the language, I’ll play the other angle. 8)

    It’s not that I disagree. Actually, I believe if one wants to come so bad that they spend years working to get a valid status they should spend time picking up the language. Especially English since it is considered the global language and definitely the global business language. Except that darn UK slang – what’s up with that? :twisted:

    What about those that didn’t want to come to the new country? Not that they opposed it, but they didn’t care for it either. I’m thinking spouses (mostly wives); elderly parent(s) of children already established or trying to establish lives? (Some cultures don’t just put their elderly into a old-age home, but actually care for them alongside the rest of the family.)

    I expect/demand the person (or people) that wish to be a part of society to actually participate (learn language fundamentals). But in cultures where the spouse is a house-wife and nothing more (with perhaps little to no formal education) what would be expected of them? Is it fair to not allow them to come? Their children will grow and learn the old outdated rituals and no progress is made. I see it as a bit of a catch-22 for certain people.

    For the rest, learn the local language!
     
  14. Mitzs
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    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    Just a housewife???? Just so you know right about now Im flipping you the bird!
    Now, even if they are "just housewives", they usually do the shopping, run their children back and forth to school events and so on. What if they need help in public? What if they become lost? What if there is an accident? How will they talk to thier children teachers? What if something happens to the husband? What if a plumber comes to the house for a repair the husband called about? I am assuming the husband would be at work. She would be the one that would have to deal with the issue. As for the grand parents, yes I think they should atleast learn the basics for cases of an emergency. To be honest, I think it should be mandatory for any to learn the lanuage of the country they are applying for citzenship in. Not trying to make their language the main one of their new country. Oh yeah, they have tried it here.
     
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  15. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    I actually used to work with a guy who's wife didn't speak a word of English. Very hard working bloke and never asked for any handouts. I actually felt sorry for his wife though as she was the type who virtually never left the house. Where he came from was a totally different culture to the UK though (small village in Pakistan) and I guess it's hard sometimes for people to adapt to that. It must have been (and I assume still is) incredibly isolating for her though. It would definitely be in her own interests to learn the language of the place she lives.

    Some of the things you mention though Mitz, like situations of what would happen in her husband wasn't at home. From what I understand, these just wouldn't happen as she wouldn't have been allowed to be at home with a man in the house due to religious beliefs etc...
     
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  16. Mitzs
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    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    Did she go to work with her husband then? :blink

    Anyway this is not the same for the mexicans that are sneaking over our boaders, or the ones entering legally. I it is not like that for the cubans either. My mom use to help teach english to those wanting to learn their new lang. Because it was free, she bring home dam good food from the people that appreciated her time. :biggrin
     
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  17. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    Nope, pretty much housebound from what I understand. Never saw her come to any work do's etc.. and even invited her (along with her husband) to my wedding, but still a now show. I saw her from a distance a couple of times and she wasn't 50 stone or anything, so I dunno why she never came out. :)
     
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  18. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    Mitz, I honestly didn’t mean to come off in a derogatory way. I also never meant to say that a house-wife was nothing more than a stay at home person. Actually I was thinking of my parents (and many of my friends parents) when they came over and I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.

    On top of that, it was probably a bad example since my Mom actually knew English better (and better education) than my father. My father came to Germany first. Learned the basics and did relatively well. Made some friends and all came to Canada. Then went back home; got married; brought his wife to Canada. Then had a family…

    Both my parents struggled in the beginning but have carved a very comfortable life for themselves. To boot, they raised me (and my bro) pretty well. 8)

    Although I don't agree with this notion, but the point I was trying to make, is that not everybody has the desire to speak the local language. This may be especially true for some folks from the old country (and from a very old time).

    In response to your comments. I can’t speak about many other cities in North America. In Toronto (and surrounding areas), there are very large ethnic community pockets: Italian (Little Italy); Chinese (China Town); Indian (Little India); Greek (Greek Town); there may be others but that’s all I know. In these communities you will find many people (usually older since most younger people interact with other cultures) that will speak only the native tongue. This isn’t a problem so long as their world is restricted to the given area. Even the national & international brands have signs in the native language and government services are offered in that language as well.

    To clarify... My folks chose to live away from the ‘ethnic pocket’. Mostly because they wanted their children to be raised in a diverse environment and take in what Canada has to offer. Not just a community based on the old country – it seemed counterintuitive to them.
     
  19. neilmowforth

    neilmowforth Bit Poster

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    Are you saying I can't go to other countries because I speak the language? I can speak French, but really struggle to speak German, does that mean I'm not aloud to go on holiday to Germany?

    Although there might be a struggle when ordering somethings, I think these countries would prefer you come on holiday there than not.

    I know a lot of people rely on the tourism industry for their income, and it brings in lots of money for any economy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Switzerland

    Having said all this, I do think our (English) attitude is wrong and we're quite lazy when it comes to languages.
     
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  20. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    yes, thats exactly what Im saying, unless you are going with a party where someone speaks the language (a lot of package type holidays do just that, your guide speaks the language and takes you around). Its incredibly rude and arrogant to enter a country and not be able to speak enough to get by.
     
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