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Getting ripped off?

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Apoc220, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. Apoc220

    Apoc220 Byte Poster

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    Hey guys,

    So I'd like to get your opinion on an offer I just received for a desktop support/junior sysadmin role that came up. So I got the offer for this role for $53k (Australian Dollars) first and negotiated it (based on my experience and research of people with similar roles in the area) to $56k. I get the offer letter today and it turns out that these guys want me to work from 8:30 to 5:30 including an hour lunch. This turns it into a 40 hour work week with two of those hours being overtime. So, here is the kicker. Those overtime hours are "factored into the base salary" If that is the case then that means that the TRUE base salary is $52k with $4k of overtime. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this wrong (and possibly illegal)? I mean, they are bypassing paying actual overtime. By my calculations, if I had a true base salary of $56k then I should be making 60k with overtime. Anyone seen anything like this before? Should I even bother trying to negotiate for more at this stage? I get the feeling that these guys work their guys to the ground and I don't like the vibe I'm getting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
    Certifications: MCDST
    WIP: 70-680
  2. arnold

    arnold Bit Poster

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    If your core hours are 8:30 to 5:30, monday to friday, that equates to 8 hours a day, 40 hours per week. Remember you don't get paid for lunch. What hours are you being asked to do when overtime is involved, or what were the hours going to be before overtime was mentioned?

    In my experience, it's definitely worth getting this all resolved before accepting or turning down a role, as it could just be a misunderstanding.
     
    Certifications: 6x MCP, MCDST, MCSA Server 2003, MCTS, MCITP
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  3. Apoc220

    Apoc220 Byte Poster

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    The standard work week here is 38 hours. So they are getting 2 hours extra a week that are technically overtime and hiding it within the salary so when I'm asking for 56000 I'm not truly getting it because those two hours should be paid on top of whatever salary is my base.
     
    Certifications: MCDST
    WIP: 70-680
  4. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    The "standard work week" is whatever they want to include in their terms. I doubt you will find that it is anything illegal. They have told you that they expect you to work a 40 hour week - and in return, they will pay you $56k a year.

    Overtime is classified as any hours worked over and above the working hours specified in your contract. It is not hours worked over and above the norm for your city/country/industry. Every company decides their own working hours.

    If you dont like the terms, then don't accept. But there is nothing wrong with what they are stating. It's not like they have offered you the money based on a 38 hour week, then sprung the extra 2 hours a week on you once you started. They aren't telling you it's overtime, they are telling you that that is the working week in their company.

    Additionally, even if it was classified as "overtime" (which IMHO it isnt). Plenty of companies expect staff of a certain level to work unpaid overtime. It's part of the job, and part of the expectation as you move up the ladder.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
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    danielno8 likes this.
  5. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    If you accepted your hours were 8:30 - 5:30 with an hour for lunch.....that is 40 hours a week....Where are you getting the 38 from?
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
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  6. Cunningfox

    Cunningfox Byte Poster

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    Think about what you are arguing about 2 hours, that's 5.26% more work than you are used to, if this was only paying 53k tops and you were unable to negotiate upwards would you still be interested (it's less than 3k not 4k that 5.26% extra time by my math).

    I know you Aussies are work shy slackers :evil but 40 hours I would class as a normal working week. :p.

    If the job is worth it and looks good go for it, if not and you've got second thoughts then by all means get out if it's not right for you.
     
    Certifications: CCNP, CCNA, MCP
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  7. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    I think he means that the "standard" working week in Australia is 38 hours.
     
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  8. Apoc220

    Apoc220 Byte Poster

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    WOW... lots of action!

    OK... I guess the part where I think they are doing a dodgy is that the offer letter has this wording in it: The work week will consist of 40 hours (38 being ordinary hours plus two overtime hours per week). Their words, not mine. They are explicitly saying that the 40 hours includes two hours that they themselves are classifying as overtime. I also emailed the hiring manager and he confirmed that the 2 hours are factored into the salary versus being paid into overtime.

    Cunning, I'm actually an American ex-pat and a former U.S. Marine, so I am WELL aware of working very long hours. I guess I've been spoiled over here with the emphasis that they put on workers rights and all that. I figure if the government has rules on this stuff then I want to be covered. I've had some time to think about it and I'm not as worked up as I was before. There's other factors that have factored into this whole thing but all in all right now I'm just weighing the plusses and minuses of it all. Ultimately if I don't like it I won't take it. However, right now I'm just wanting to end having to worry about contracts as that's been my primary means of making money up to now. I figure that this will be a job that I'll be at for a while, so I want to make sure that it's all peachy before I commit myself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
    Certifications: MCDST
    WIP: 70-680
  9. Cunningfox

    Cunningfox Byte Poster

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    No offence meant, just a gentle tease, although I guess you're more pissed off by being called an Aussie than a question over your work ethic ;). Joking aside I understand the reaction, I've had something similar recently myself. Sounds like you are doing the right thing weighing up the benefits and such so good luck whichever way you go on it, and congrats on the offer.
     
    Certifications: CCNP, CCNA, MCP
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  10. Apoc220

    Apoc220 Byte Poster

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    It's all good... I didn't take offense to it. Believe me, I have nothing against working long hours. I just want to make sure that I'm being compensated properly for it. Thanks, though!
     
    Certifications: MCDST
    WIP: 70-680
  11. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    You're either happy with the contract or your not, the fact that it's a 40 hour week instead of a 37.5 doesn't mean too much (I work a 40hr week and commute an extra 25 - 30 hours a week (yes, I commute 5 - 6 hours a day)).

    If you're not happy working the hours at the salary offered then turn it down, as a marine tho you should be used to the hardship factor (at least you're not sleeping under the stars eating MRE's).

    Personally speaking if you like the work and are happy with the salary whats the problem? IT isn't one of those roles that you usually expect to drop tools dead on finish time anyway.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
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  12. Apoc220

    Apoc220 Byte Poster

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    Hey guys,

    Just a quick update I decided not to take the role. The hours were ultimately going to cause a hassle as far as me getting home at a reasonable hour due to transport issues. If not for that I would have probably taken it as the role was genuinely one that I would have like to take on as a stepping stone to infrastructure. Thanks for the responses as they helped me get some perspective. Oh well... guess I'll just have to keep going with the contracts for now. Such is life!
     
    Certifications: MCDST
    WIP: 70-680
  13. Monkeychops

    Monkeychops Kilobyte Poster

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    My wife used to have something similar, the company had a standard working week of 37.5 hours, but her role required a 40 hour week.

    So they had contracted overtime to make up those extra hours a week.

    Ultimately it makes no difference, you do the job, you get paid with the only thing being with enough notice they could take those hours back off you and cange your contract.

    If anything it helped when moving positions within the company as they will bump you up a level to make up for the loss of those extra hours :)
     

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