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Get a job in IT with no experience

Discussion in 'General Cisco Certifications' started by daroos, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. daroos

    daroos New Member

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    How to get a job in IT with no experience. I have CCNA cert, doing Network +. Any tips :).
     
    Certifications: CCNA
    WIP: Network+
  2. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Keep applying.

    The CCNA may hold you back though since it is designed for people with experience and isn't an entry level cert. You need to be aiming for entry level/trainee positions.

    Try knocking the CCNA off your cv and get some entry level certifications such as the A+,N+ and MCDST
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  3. DapperDan

    DapperDan Nibble Poster

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    I agree with greenbrucelee.

    In my last job, there were some guys in the desktop team fresh out of university. They told me that at uni in their final year, they had the option of doing the CCNA as an add-on to their degree. They said they wished they'd done it, but I said what's the point if you don't have any real world experience in that field. Had they'd done it, passed and came for an interview at my last job with a CCNA on their CV, there's a change they might have not been taken on.

    So I'd leave the CCNA off your CV until you get some experience in this field and concentrate on the certs outlined by green.

    Good luck with the job hunting.

    D.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2010
    Certifications: ITIL v3; A+, Network+
  4. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I agree with the others... remove the CCNA from your CV and pursue the A+, Network+, and MCDST certifications.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  5. morph

    morph Byte Poster

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    yup ditto the above, to a certain degree some entry level first line jobs just require and interest and attitude type thing ;) good luck though dude :)
     
    Certifications: Network +, ITIL Foundation, CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: server/ccna security
  6. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    I Agree with the others. Remove CCNA from your CV and keep on trying.

    Good luck
     
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  7. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    Hi,

    bit puzzled as to why you would do the N+ after having a good understanding and passing the CCNA. :blink

    as for the cv: i am on the fence with this whole hidding certification thing.

    a recently certified medical doctor is a doctor, right? Granted, in dire need you would rather see someone with silver hair and a rolex (sorry for any silver cf surfers - no rolex's present?!). Why? Perhaps feel a little more assured with the fact they have lots of experience? That's understandable, but doesn't mean the person new to the profession cannot do the job in question - or does it?

    I passed the 290 and 291 together back in 2007. Do i feel comfortable about all the topics now? No. Does it mean I couldn't carry out a task which involves them, or wouldn't know what to look for, or where to ask for help? No.

    certification proves (should be mainly to the individual) that someone has a good understanding or skill at the time of test. Driving test, first aid test, I.T certification. the list is endless.

    If you have hands on experience and feel comfortable with not just the objectives of the exam, but the day to day tasks involved (look on the job board and see what employers expect from someone who carries the cert) then I personally cannot see why it shouldn't be listed. you can always explain to the potential employeer how you gained the experience. In this case, it may be because you attended a classroom course, or bought the switches and used them to gain the knowledge required.

    that's my feelings on the subject anyway!

    <runs for cover> :biggrin
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2010
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  8. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    yep but a newley qualified doctor doesn't perfom brain surgery :D <running away faster>:biggrin
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  9. demarrer

    demarrer Byte Poster

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    my opinion is dont lie or hide things from your future employees on your CV. I imagine you worked really hard for your CCNA and most employees will think you are committed to IT for putting in this time. If you hide your cert they will find out in the end anyhow, or are you going to keep this secret forever :)

    Show also in your covering letter that you are more than just technically minded, but demonstrate your ability to manage people and situations at work.

    Hope that helps.
     
    Certifications: A+, Security +, CCNA, CCSA
    WIP: music, (dreaming of) CCIE Security :D
  10. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    Not sure about that. A medical Dr. has numerous years of experience, doing labs, clinicals, and residence etc... My point is, someone isn't a Dr until the person has quite a bit of experience.

    On the network side, which newbie did you want to give the root/enable passwords to? If it's an entry level role, and the candidate already has her CCNA, what are the chances she will want to stick around for 1+ years?

    Presentation is everything, a hiring manager should be thinking "this is the candidate", not "this is the candidtate for 3-months" -lol

    that's my feelings on the subject anyway! :twisted:
     
  11. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Because certifications aren't to learn new things... it's to show an employer what you can do. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as an entry-level CCNA job. But there ARE entry-level jobs that deal with basic PC networking... and that's where the Network+ comes in. As such, having the Network+ shows an employer that you have those skills.

    Having the CCNA doesn't show an employer that you know networking... it shows an employer that you know how to administer a Cisco router in a networked environment... completely different job skill.

    Yep... who is typically asked to shadow experienced doctors for months (or years!) before being allowed to perform the same procedures. Further, a doctor doesn't typically jump right into advanced procedures... you first have to perform residency (gaining on-the-job experience) before you can even be board certified! Similarly, a tech needs to gain that on-the-job experience and learn and progress in a real-world environment before being let loose on a network infrastructure. Unfortunately, the certification process for techs is not as stringent as doctors... they'll let anyone get the CCNA regardless of whether it is suitable for the tech's job role or not.

    When there are experienced techs available, would you hire an inexperienced tech to administer routers? I wouldn't.

    On the flip side of the token, would you hire a VERY experienced tech to do entry-level tech work when there are cheaper, inexperienced techs available? I wouldn't. I don't need an experienced tech to do entry-level work. Nor do I need a Cisco-certified tech. I need an entry-level tech... preferably with entry-level certifications.

    Gotta use the right tool for the right job... or, in this case, hire the right employee for the right job.

    That's not the point. There are certainly plenty of people who COULD do the job, including you. But put yourself in the employer's shoes. They don't know you from Adam. And if there's an experienced tech available to do server administration, they're probably not going to hire an inexperienced, certified tech instead.

    Disagree wholeheartedly. The whole point of certification isn't to prove to yourself that you can do a job... it's to show an employer that you have a baseline level of knowledge with a technology. And that's all it can show. In truth, it doesn't prove to an employer that you can do a job... only experience can do that. You can thank all those "paper MCSEs" for that mess... employers have been burned for the past 10-15 years by certified people who say that they can do a job but really can't because they lack the experience.

    But unfortunately, that's not considered "experience" by employers.

    The point isn't whether he deserves the CCNA or not. The point isn't whether he can administer routers or not. The point IS whether the CCNA is going to help him get a job at this stage of his career. Entry-level employers don't need a CCNA... and employers with higher-level jobs don't need people who don't have experience (particularly when there are plenty of experienced techs out there looking for work). Thus, the CCNA can indeed make it MORE difficult for him to get the type of jobs he qualified for: entry-level jobs.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  12. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    As someone who has sat on the "other side of the table", I can tell you that I would think that he'd be apt to leave the entry-level job I'm offering as soon as he finds something better... leaving me to find, hire, and train someone all over again. As such, I wouldn't even grant him an interview.

    Why would they care if they find out you have a CCNA after they've hired you? :blink

    Nobody's saying to represent yourself as something your not. But there's no reason to list a certification that isn't relevant to the job position.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  13. demarrer

    demarrer Byte Poster

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    I'll have to agree to disagree on this one. By missing out information on your CV, that could be relevent to the job you are applying for, you are most definitely representing yourself as something you are not. Deceet or lying impacts on the trust and confidence between an employee/employer, which could have an impact on whether your employee decides to continue with your contract after the probation period. I'm not sure how impressed a future employer would be if on your CV you give the impression you are a noob simply to get an interview and possibly the actual entry level job, when in fact you have a CCNA under your belt.
     
    Certifications: A+, Security +, CCNA, CCSA
    WIP: music, (dreaming of) CCIE Security :D
  14. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    Not quite. CCNA without experience is hardly worth anything.
     
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  15. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    ...then you're missing the point. The CCNA is not relevant to entry-level jobs. And this guy is looking for entry-level jobs because he doesn't have any experience. If he's looking for router administration jobs, then the CCNA isn't going to help him much because he doesn't have any experience. No company in their right mind is going to hire someone without experience to administer routers.

    Not at all. I don't put on my resume that I was a dishwasher at Bonanza restaurant. Why? Because it's not relevant to the jobs I apply for. I don't put on my resume that I sold cookware. Why? Because it's not relevant to the jobs I apply for. I don't put on my resume that I'm a PADI-certified Rescue Diver. Why? Because it's not relevant to the jobs I apply for. That doesn't mean I'm lying, being deceitful, or passing myself off as something I'm not just because I don't list those things.

    To be brutally honest, one could argue that trying to advertise yourself as a true CCNA without having the experience to back it up is indeed passing yourself off as something you're not.

    But without experience, he IS a noob! :rolleyes: Passing a certification exam doesn't make you "not a noob"!

    Holy moly, am I missing something here? :blink
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  16. demarrer

    demarrer Byte Poster

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    I think one has to be aware that some employees might see it as deceitful whereas others might not blink an eye at non-disclosure of facts on a CV. I guess this is getting to the realm of being an ethical situation. So on that one...over to what ever you decide is right for you
     
    Certifications: A+, Security +, CCNA, CCSA
    WIP: music, (dreaming of) CCIE Security :D
  17. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Whether or not they incorrectly see it as being deceitful - because it's absolutely not - there's no way for them to find out unless you've advertised all over the Internet that you're certified. As someone who has reviewed and who currently reviews resumes of job candidates, I can tell you quite confidently that you simply don't list things that aren't relevant to the job for which you're applying - you just don't. Not if you want to be considered for the job, anyway. That should be common sense, but perhaps that's missing in this day and age. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  18. demarrer

    demarrer Byte Poster

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    I don't mean to be funny, but this is your opinion. There are no hard and fast rules. I happen to believe it is deceitful in this context. I respect your comments, but please let me have mine also without brushing them aside so readily.
     
    Certifications: A+, Security +, CCNA, CCSA
    WIP: music, (dreaming of) CCIE Security :D
  19. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Sure... but it's my opinion that is colored by 1) the expert opinion of those who critique CVs/resumes for a living, 2) my own experience being a guy who reviews resumes of candidates, and 3) hearing people whine when they get a bunch of advanced certifications but can't get a job. I assume that you're not one of those CV experts nor are you someone who screens candidate CVs/resumes, am I right?

    Perhaps you'd rather they continue to bang their head against a wall and continue to not be able to find work? :rolleyes:

    EDIT: Whether you can see the difference or not, there's a huge difference between not listing a certification you have and not listing an IT employer you got fired from... just like there's a huge difference between not telling your wife that you have bought her flowers and not telling your wife that you slept with her best friend. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  20. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    I disagree, I have a number of certs that don't appear on my CV, they include the CCNA, CNA (Novell) and CNE (Novell), they don't appear on my CV because they aren't at all pertinent to the roles I do now. I don't hide the fact that I hold those certs and if people asked me I would tell them I have them. What is wrong is saying you have the cert when infact you don't.

    Negating something from a CV is ok, it's out and out telling lies on the CV that is wrong. Why should I put something on there that I don't want to put on there?
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).

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