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From a PM I received earlier from brom_star

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by zebulebu, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Folks

    Interesting PM I received earlier from a poster who joined us over Christmas - whom I suspected (and still suspect) of being a training company shill.

    I've posted it on the forum in the hope of getting a lively new year debate going!

    Well, thanks for that bullet-pointed reply. It doesn't exactly allay many of my fears regarding you being a shill for a training company (note I didn't suggest you WORKED for one) - nor does it answer why you have posted five messages on the forum, all eschewing the virtues of Classroom Based Training and inferring that self-study isn't a valid path to success.

    To take your points one by one:

    1) I have lots of certifications, and am rightly proud of them - however, I would estimate that less than 10% of what I needed to know to pass those exams actually came from the Classroom courses I took for them - the rest was self-study and on the job knowledge

    2) At no point did I say that you 'worked' for a training company. The vast majority of training company shills don't 'work' for them either.

    3) You do indeed have the right to convince me of whatever opinion(s) you hold, but I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to convince me of, since I have already stated, and will continue to state in every post I make on the issue, that CBT is a valuable, if additional aid in the certification process. Your opinions, however, might carry a little more weight if you either: a - contributed to threads not related to training providers, b - contributed to the community here in other useful ways, or c - at least introduced yourself in the 'new members' section

    4) Congratulations on that - I have been MCSE certified for years and am proud of it

    5) Congratulations on that too, although posting a PM to me at 4:00 in the morning is more than a little odd if you're not working at that time

    6) There is nothing to ponder here. I reiterate every single statement I have ever made on the matter:

    You CANNOT - I repeat CANNOT pass ANY MS cert by taking a CBT course alone - to do so requires either a large amount of industry knowledge or a Classroom course of about six weeks per exam, with the trainers having inside knowledge of the topics you are likely to face and weighting the subjects they teach accordingly (impossible without prior knowledge of the questions you will be facing).

    Note again that I have already stated I found my CBT courses for my MCSE (and especially my MCDBA) exceptionally useful - I'm not saying that they aren't useful, just attempting to warn people not to listen to the bullshit that training companies spout ad nauseum.

    7) You haven't offended me in the slightest (although I think BBMichael might have the hump with you, since you basically accused him of talking 'rubbish'). Perhaps you misjudged the strength of feeling on this board related to training companies. Most (note, not ALL - the company I used for my MCSE were very professional) are simply out to rip people off - most people on this forum agree that the certification industry in the UK is an absolute disgrace - advertising aimed squarely at encouraging people with absolutely no skills or aptitude for IT to fork out ten grand for a 'guaranteed job' that, in reality, is no such thing are little short of sickening.

    8) Happy New Year to you too

    9) I am Zebulebu - as it clearly states in my profile.

    I am going to copy this into a post on the forum - I hope you're not offended by that, and would like you to continue the dicussion 'in the open'. Its always helpful to have another side to an argument, and there may well be people in the community who share your view on training providers.
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  2. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    For some reason the way it's worded reminds me of an email I had recently from a rather helpful Nigerian gentleman who wanted to give me some leftover cash he found following the overthrow of some president or other.

    What time is it there when it's 4.00 am here?
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  3. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    LOL

    Personally, I think you need to look a little further to the East for the user's location...
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  4. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    Brom_star,

    The idea of this forum is to help people on the track to Comptia, Microsoft and Cisco certifications.

    Members help each other and share experiences with courseware and recommended media.

    We look forward to your help as an experienced MCSE on technical matters. Although members offer personal experience about providers, as a forum we let people decide for themselves about paying for professional help - it is their money.

    For my personal feeling, please see my reply here
    Happy new year.

    Si
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  5. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Actually, I believe he was calling out Bluerinse, as I hadn't posted to that thread prior to the rubbish comment. However, I felt that I should step in and defend "the family"... especially since their posts were NOT rubbish. The only rubbish I see is collecting in the form of his pro-training-centre posts. I'm with ya, Z... I smell a couched advertisement as sure as I'm sitting here.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  6. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    i don't know, there are alot of people out there that belive in instrution based course training. There are some people that need that kind of structure to train or study then just picking up a book and some tools and doing it on their own. Some people need to spend the money to commient themselves to seeing it though. We have more than one person here who are having a hard time studying on their own. I see nothing wrong with people pushing something they belive in and that worked for them. I know that I'm a firm beliver in a certain network+ book and do it yourself and I push this advice any chance I get. A lot of people here do.

    Zeb could you please post a link to the thread you are referring to. I would like to read that before I make any more comments.
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  7. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Part of it was the way he presented it. I agree with Zeb that he sounds like a shill who is trying to hide behind an "anonymous" username.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  8. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    yes, but I would still like a link or the name of the thread so I may read it for myself.:biggrin
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  9. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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  10. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  11. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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  12. NetEyeBall

    NetEyeBall Kilobyte Poster

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    Well...personally I won't turn down structured training, however I am not putting my money into it either. Hands-on and self-study are the way to go. Training courses definitely can motivate you, and jump start the process. But you aren't going to pass a cert or succeed on the job by attending a training class alone.

    But if money wasn't a problem, then I would take all the courses I could.
     
    Certifications: CCNA, A+, N+, MCSE 4.0, CCA
    WIP: CCDA, CCNP, Cisco Firewall
  13. brom_star

    brom_star Bit Poster

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    Sorry to dissapoint you, however I'm Irish not nigerian. I don't want to give you money, but if you are offering, then I wont refuse.
    I have a tendency yo shock people, its just part of my personality, not intended to upset any of you sorry.:eek:

    btw, What does the word shill mean?
    I don't work for a training co. however if you all knew who I was & what I do it would shock you
     
  14. NetEyeBall

    NetEyeBall Kilobyte Poster

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    X-porn star turned IT Pro/Golf Champion?

    Seriously...who are you and what do you do? I need a shock this morning. Very sleepy here in the noc at 0536 Central Time.

    "Sorry to dissapoint you, however I'm Irish not nigerian. I don't want to give you money, but if you are offering, then I wont refuse." - brom_star post #13

    Ok...I offer for you to give me tons of money. ;)
     
    Certifications: CCNA, A+, N+, MCSE 4.0, CCA
    WIP: CCDA, CCNP, Cisco Firewall
  15. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

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    NetEyeBall, The official forum quote facility is a heck of a lot better, and less confusing, then your current quote method!

    I'm not having a moan, but your posts are confusing when one finds themself reading a previous post within a new post without a proper quotation that refers to the user that is being quoted.:eek:
     
    Certifications: MCSA , N+, A+ ,ITIL V2, MCTS
    WIP: MCITP 2008 Ent Admin, Server Admin, Exchange 2010, Lync 2010, CCNA & VCP5
  16. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

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    Really? I'm Harrison Ford and I'm currently involved in the new Indiana Jones film...is anyone shocked?? :D :D :D
     
    Certifications: MCSA , N+, A+ ,ITIL V2, MCTS
    WIP: MCITP 2008 Ent Admin, Server Admin, Exchange 2010, Lync 2010, CCNA & VCP5
  17. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    LOLOLOLOLOL

    I can't believe I missed this earlier. You couldn't make it up! I would have thought that, since you are 'Irish', then you of all people would know what 'shill' means - since its a bloody Irish word!!
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  18. NetEyeBall

    NetEyeBall Kilobyte Poster

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    Can someone fill us Non-Irish types what shill means? Probably means someone shady or something..but I don't know.
     
    Certifications: CCNA, A+, N+, MCSE 4.0, CCA
    WIP: CCDA, CCNP, Cisco Firewall
  19. Cockles

    Cockles Megabyte Poster

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    It even has it's own Wiki entry

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

    From what I can gather, you remember them old travelling sales men who used to sell miracle cures, then some wheezing, stooped so-called member of the crowd will drink the tonic then suddenly be fine and dandy. That'll be the shill
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: Trying to find my car keys
  20. NetEyeBall

    NetEyeBall Kilobyte Poster

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    Got it! Thanks!!!
     
    Certifications: CCNA, A+, N+, MCSE 4.0, CCA
    WIP: CCDA, CCNP, Cisco Firewall

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