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Computeach/CIW/ZEND

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by iiisecondcreep, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. iiisecondcreep

    iiisecondcreep Bit Poster

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    Hello all, I'm new here and this is my first post.
    And its a long 'un. So apologies in advance, but I really need some thoughts and opinions.

    I have just not 5minutes ago finished with a Computeach rep.

    I'm 23 this year and have been in my job for 3 years in August and I hate it, I work 40hours a week(Including weekends!), the pay is rubbish and the career prospects are as good as nil (sales assistant in retail). I am have pretty much no qualifications (I did very well at school, but rather than take that further I decided to work a series of rubbish jobs and party alot). So now I'm trying like a bear to make amends, turn my life around and actually make something of myself.
    So...
    I'm doing a level 2 course with the Open University called 'Putting Computer Systems To Work' which uses C++ programming. I am also doing a (qualified) Advanced Photoshop evening course at college.

    I don't know anyone else who has had anything at all to do with Computeach so I only have their reputation (which seems to be good, winning awards and such like), and other peoples reviews of them on the internet.
    And I am also looking at doing a course with Computeach. The course I discussed with the chap was 'Professional Webmaster' which leads to a career in Web Design and leaves you with the following qualifications:
    • CIW Associate
    • CIW Site Designer
    • CIW E-Commerce Designer
    • Master CIW Designer
    • Zend Certified Engineer
    You can do the course without the Zend Certification for a few hundred quid less but it costs 2 grand to do on its own.

    It SEEMS to be a good idea, but it IS expensive, at £4950.
    They now gauruntee you a new job/career in IT within 3 months of completing and pasing your final exam or they will begin to pay back your course fees.
    I think I'm clear on how it all works, ie having to travel for courses and the cost of that (they'll pay up to £20 per night) etc.
    I know that they require 90% pass before you can go onto the next part of your course, and I am aware that the actual exam for this type of thing the pass mark is not this high.
    I know also that the guy I spoke to yes he was a salesperson and its his job to sell the courses BUT I was encouraged to have someone sit through the meeting with me, it was my own decision not to, they were all busy anyway but I did try get input from them on my other 2 courses and they were completely useless so....

    Basically it all comes down to this:
    I have about a week to make my mind up
    I will need to take out a loan to pay the fees

    BUT
    I am desperate to get out of my current job, its proving impossible to get another one with even the same salary, never mind higher because I don't have the relevent experience and/or qualifications. I am more than willing to put in the time and effort required for the course.

    Local Colleges don't do any properly qualified courses, only 'this is where the power button is' unqualified type ideas, and I do not want to wait another 6 months for new terms to begin for any other distance learning, I want out and I want out fast.
    Hence I'm already doing 2 courses and looking at starting another. (and if I have time I'll also be taking up voluntary work doing computing and and SVQ with JHP training (its done through scottish enterprise so its freeeeeeee!))
    I won't have any free time, but I really am that desperate to get out of my job and into a decent one!

    So, Computeach-
    Yae or Nae?
     
    Certifications: HNU Applied Electronic Image Generation
  2. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    First of all, welcome to CertForums, iiisecondcreep. Hope you like the place.

    I can't answer your question directly as I've never used this provider. I do want to suggest that you read a couple of threads we have pinned at the top of the Training and Development forum that might prove useful:

    http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/thread7338.html

    http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/thread2756.html

    Beyond that, you might want to do a search of the forums for the name of the training provider. I'm sure many other members have expressed their opinions on this and other vendors. Take some time to just look around the Training forum here and see how others facing this sort of situation handle it.

    I'm sure other members will be along presently to give you other ideas. BTW...don't forget to pop up to the New Members Introduction forum and give us a proper "hello". Cheers. :)
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  3. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    The Computeach website puts me off a bit.

    It looks like a gay dating site.
    They also claim to be winners of the 2005 e-learning award. Try Googling that and see what comes up...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  4. phoenix510

    phoenix510 Byte Poster

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    Welcome mate
    I am also doing a computeach course and I have read the opinions on this training provider. I am only 1 month into the course and what I have found out so far is that they mark and send out work pretty quick, the help on the forums is very good. the learning material is good, mind you I have only just finished the fundementals stage so have not actually gone to the centre yet. In my opinion you get out of a course as much as you put in and feel that they have got a proven track record. no doubt it will not suit everyone and they are entitled to post their opinions and if your not happy with any type of service tell them so they can address it .. hope this works.. I'm doing the MCSE cse which I know will not be achievable in a coffee break.but with some hard work and self networking hopefully will reap the benefits.
    Good luck in your decision.
     
    Certifications: ECDL, MOS WORD & Excel, MCDST
    WIP: A+ & 70-270
  5. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    ROFL... I just have to go look...
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  6. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Don’t be pressured into making a decision because the sales guy wants a decision by the end of the week.

    There are plenty of training providers around, perhaps shop around? You could even go to college and keep working part time while you study.

    Basically what I’m saying is there are plenty of options for IT training so don’t sign anything unless it’s the right option for you and your wallet. :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  7. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    Hi and welcome aboard.

    As Trip has said please look at the pinned threads and do some Googling for info on training providers.
    There are many promising all sorts. If i were you, i would sit down and write on a piece of paper what you want and expect from the provider. Then have a look to see if they can give it to you.
    Also have a look around for pricing as they all vary, some quite a bit!
    Some people want and need the help, encouragement and other benefits that a provider offers and some take the self study route.
    The choice is yours. Let us know what you decide- there is always good advice going around here whatever you decide :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  8. iiisecondcreep

    iiisecondcreep Bit Poster

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    I think I'd be better going with a training provider, because I want out of my job as soon as possible, and this seems to be the best way of doing it.Computeach seem to be well recognised by many employers, I have googled it and a few BAD reports have come up on various message boards about the place, but what you have to bear in mind is people are very quick to complain, but not nearly as quick to praise. Its the same with everything. On account of this its very hard to judge just by what you read on message boards.

    My main concern to be honest is the price, its an awful lot of money to fork out if its not going to be worth while. But I really am willing to put in the time and effort and money if its gonna get me a good, or even just better, job.
    (time - 950 hours over 18months- less than 15hours a week)

    The day after I started my job we had a member of staff from another store in covering. I asked her how long she had been with the company. She said 2 years, and she was still just a sales assistant.
    I promised myself that 2 years down the line I would not be in her position.
    Its been 2.5 years, I'm still in the same position. And its really depressing the hell out of me.
    I need to get out.

    So if anyone has any better ideas I am open to any and all ideas and suggestions!
     
    Certifications: HNU Applied Electronic Image Generation
  9. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    I did...

    http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=...-learning+award"+computeach&btnG=Search&meta=

    Apart from them boasting on their own sites, the only other mention is this snippet...

    http://www.mdx.ac.uk/news/e-Learning.htm

    Yikes! Middlesex University's site grammar needs some serious work :blink
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  10. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I found several different e-learning awards, but they were all a bit vague about who sponsors them.
    Fair play to Computeach if they've won something mind.
    Personally I'd have linked to it from their site so people could see what it actually was that they had won. Other than a logo that is... :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  11. postal postie

    postal postie Nibble Poster

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    i'm doing a compu teach course. vb.net

    it's all very good. they send out the material promptly.
    they help you out with anyproblems by calling them or by email.

    i go to in center days to help with my training.

    as for the job thing.
    they do have people who's job it is to look for jobs for people when they are in the later stages of their training.

    of course you can look for yourself.

    the only problem is that if you get stuck then it can be awhile until you get an answer. 1 2 1 training would be instant.
    it's also difficult studying on your own.

    the other thing i would say is,is that you get about 3 years to do the course.
    if you don't complete it you have to pay 5% every quarter(i think) of the cost of your course until you do pass.
     
  12. postal postie

    postal postie Nibble Poster

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    so compu teach yes or no?

    i'd say if your capable of motivating yourself when your studying on your own.
    and you can knuckle down to the studying.
    and you can afford the money

    then yes.

    i would say it would take you 2 years before you can give up your job though.
     
  13. iiisecondcreep

    iiisecondcreep Bit Poster

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    Yeah I'm confident I can motivate myself to work away myself and get the work done, but I am not prepared to stay in my job for another 2 years. No way.
    The only reason I'm doing this is to try and fast track my way out of this job, I've already been in it a year and a half longer than I ever intended to.
     
    Certifications: HNU Applied Electronic Image Generation
  14. shambles

    shambles Guest

    My experience of computeach has not been so positive. But before you write me off as a whinger, consider this: Like one of the earlier posters in this thread, I felt quite happy in the first few months, but I got more and more unhappy as the course progressed. I'm not going to trash them here (but I am so, so tempted), but I would suggest (if you are able to) spending the minimum amount possible with them, to give you an opportunity to check them out with a lower financial commitment riding on it. If (like myself) you end up not-so-happy, £2000 is a lot less to lose then almost £5000. And if you like them, you can always sign up for more later on.
    But I bet the salesman gave you a very convincing speil about how much you are going to save by signing up for the whole lot right away...
    Just be really careful.
     
  15. Baba O'Riley

    Baba O'Riley Gigabyte Poster

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    Hi iiisecondcreep,

    I am not with Computeach but I am with NITLC who offer similar services at similar prices.

    This question is a horses for courses question I suppose. With me, I wake up every day and think "sh!t, I'm paying 5 grand for this thing, I'd better knuckle down tonight." There's no motivator quite like money. If on the other hand, you are disciplined enough to go it alone, and prefer the option of doing things in your own time, then you can do things cheaper with self-study. I like the fact that I have around 20 days of workshops as part of my course, I should have the first coming up soon and it makes me feel that the extra money I'm paying is going to something more than just NITLC's profits.

    There are many training provider nay-sayers out there, but a lot of these are people who have signed up for these courses without really looking at the Ts & Cs, no real idea of how much they are paying and no real interest in IT. The NITLC forums are rife with people who say things like "Hi, I'm John, I've never turned a PC on in my life and I've signed up for this course to try and boost my earnings". These people are the ones who feel aggrieved when they get to the end of their two years and have not passed a single cert. The forums are also rife with people saying "I'm 18 months into my two year MCSE and I'm half way through my A+ book. I'm beginning to panic a bit, does anyone have any advice". The advice I'd like to give these people (but I don't) is "Yes, you have wasted your money and you're f**cked." These people need to realise that 1. They will not be looking at a salary boost, especially in the short term, and 2. They are never going to get an MCSE in two years with no prior knowledge or experience.

    So to sum up (It's a quiet day at work today which is why I've waffled a bit), my advice would be, research any options thoroughly (sp?), read everything before you sign it, and make sure you walk in to anything with both eyes open and no pink tint to your glasses.

    Good luck!
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+
    WIP: 70-270
  16. danielbh

    danielbh Bit Poster

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    I very nearly signed up for a computeach course about a year ago. What put me off was the 7 day deadline you have to think it over! With such a big financial input (£3700) it seemed highly suspicious that they were forcing me to take a decision. It is clear to me now they simply didn't want me to do any research on any other training providers or consider self-study. The sales pitch seemed very rehearsed and I bet the man didn't know anything about IT. It seems as if they offer the job guarantee - which like so many is not a job but a refund of fees! Have you thought to ask - "why do you call it a job guarantee, when it really is just refunding fees?!"
     
  17. postal postie

    postal postie Nibble Poster

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    i didn't have a 7 day think over. i ssaid i could have as long as i like.
    but then i'd say 7 days is quite a long time.
    when i was thinking about apprenta it didn't take me 15mins to find this site.
    i suppose they've got you on their list and if you take longer than 7 days they take you off the list so they don't have alot of extra people that aren't taht interested.
    can you imagine having 50 peopel who are all still thinking 4months later on their list?
    so 7 days seems fair to me.
     
  18. postal postie

    postal postie Nibble Poster

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    the point is companys like compu teach shouldhn't accept john's money if this is how he comes across.

    that's what the guy who came round to talk to me about compu teach said.
    they have a reputation to uphold. they don't want loads of people dropping out or failing to get their quali's

    of course i asked

    'considering your a profit making company how many people do you actually turn away. even if they're adamant they want to pay their 4k?.
     
  19. Baba O'Riley

    Baba O'Riley Gigabyte Poster

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    That's a tricky one to respond to. Of course you're right that they should exercise some responsibility over who's money they take, NITLC say, for example, that you should be in a position to spend at least seven hours a week on their course but preferably double that and their initial course materials do lay it out very simply. But , two years is still an unrealistic timescale - all training providers offer extensions though (at a price).

    On the other hand, no business - IT trainers or otherwise - is going to turn away business. Look at banks, they allow people to borrow far beyond their means. At the end of the day, and it's been said on these forums a hundred times, if you're handing over 4 or 5 thou, anyone in their right mind would research into it as extensively as possible.
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+
    WIP: 70-270
  20. postal postie

    postal postie Nibble Poster

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    the guy did answer very quickly. which is what i was impressed about.
    he basically said that they exercise caution when accepting people to make sure their drop out rate is not high. and the qualification gaining is.
    the lower the drop out rate the better they look/are.
     

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