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Cloud computing

Discussion in 'Virtual Computing' started by Theprof, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    I've been at a cloud computing workshop all day today talking about Private Clouds, tomorrow we cover public clouds. Its a really interesting topic especially once they start getting deep into IaaS, PaaS, and SaaS.

    I am just curious how many of you actually use Private/Public cloud or thinking about going that way? From my understand is that this is not an easy transition. There would have to be a lot of research done and really see the benefits. I know in my company we have a in-house built web based application that is pretty much like SAP however from what I understood to do such transition we would require re-architecting the application to support the cloud, whether it's public or private. Then there's the thought of policy management, permission which are a lot more granular than that of what we have, and last but not least the ability to limit human error, because lets face it, by nature we all make mistakes, but if we grant a specific permission to a specific user for a specific amount of time on a specific server, we limit the chances of error. These are just some of the things to consider, there are of course a lot more...

    Also there are variations where it can be a hybrid, basically host some things in the cloud, other in your local server room.

    I am no expert on the topic, just a newbie but this is something to really think about the future.

    What are your thoughts?
     
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  2. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    Interesting Theprof, and thanks for sharing. Well personally we don't use any form of cloud computing at work at present but use VMware ESX servers and HP SAN enclosures with eva mgmt servers.

    I am interested in clould computing owing to the above and would in the future like to learn more about this new and evolving technology. Well not exactly a new technology so to speak but is new to me in all respects.

    I was looking at amazon a few weeks ago reading reviews on cloud computing books but couldn't find any that stood out.

    Please, let me know if there is one you can recommend seeing you have more than the basic idea of what clould computing entails.

    Thanks again, for sharing:)
     
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  3. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Call me a Luddite, but I don't trust anyone else to store my data. End of.
     
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  4. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    I can see what you're saying, but then you could always host your own cloud if you don't want your information to be stored else where. What I am trying to get at, is to those admins who have done their research and who actually implemented the Cloud or in the process of doing so, whether it be Private or Public, what benefits did you see that made you want to go that way?
     
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  5. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    You know, I don't really have any books or even read any books, I've been to this cloud workshop and studied the power points, asked questions, etc... and came to my own conclusion as to what a cloud really is. Now correct me if I am wrong but in essence a cloud is really a service that is provided to the end users. End users don't necessarily have to be just your everyday employee but can also be an administrator, etc...
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
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  6. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I have deployed plenty of environments geared to the private cloud concept, and more recently the hybrid type setup

    Cloud (especially private) is really more of an adjustment to the management and delivery of business services, not really specific technology (the technology, provisioning/virtualization/zero-touch is hardly new). the concept is the manner in which these systems can be deployed, managed and destroyed, on demand, but users themselves if warranted

    from a technology basis its about flexibility and adaptability, as well as seamless scalability all built on top of reliability, technology like storage networks and virtualization have helped us get to that platform, that infrastructure, but it's the management tools that enable us to deploy services themselves irregardless of underlying location, hardware or software that make the 'Cloud'

    The public cloud is a riskier concept, and Mike lists a more than common challange from customers, but generally the facts speak for themselves and in most cases a cloud (public) deployment will more adequately secure and protect your data than most in house IT teams do today, and imagine the many thousands of business that really don't need an IT team when using cloud technology to begin with!


    I think the public cloud will start at the small end
    the private cloud will start at the enterprise that gets 'IT'
    and the hybrid will take some time to break past the early adopters
     
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  7. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Then it's not truly in "The Cloud", is it?

    No thanks; redundant backbone SANs are fine for me.
     
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  8. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    Fair point Michael as security has also been the biggest issue when it comes to cloud computing as a technology for hosting a service etc. I think to a large extent this would either make cloud computing or even be it's down fall.

    I suppose we have to wait and see as personally I don't see the difference in terms hosting yourself via SAN or NAS. Well, you have the trust that data is secured and backed up including safe guiding the confidential side of the data.
     
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  9. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    No you don't
    the numbers validate this
    most internal IT departments do not/cannot maintain the same SLA's as cloud providers constantly do
    and most can't even quantify in any real certainty the security employed on their data (they assume because its local, its safe)

    the 'trust' is mearly an illusion created by the fear that someone else is poking around in their data if it's not in their basement, the truth is, who says they are not anyway? i mean a network cable is a network cable!

    The FEAR of the cloud could indeed be it's downfall
    but like virtualization before it, it's in its early years and ramping up fast, the naysayers may have nothing to say in years to come as it becomes a business requirement to maintain pace
     
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  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I don't have to worry about "most internal IT departments". I have to worry only about my network. And I know how to keep my data secure and my network up.

    Other people might want to consider it. I don't need it.
     
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  11. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    This would be the case if you're the only one in charge of your network no? what you if you have a another network admin? that changes things. At that point you have to trust him because he can turn out to be someone different then what you thought.
     
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  12. BosonMichael
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    Then I make sure he's up to snuff. If he isn't, I either clean up behind him or "fix the problem" by getting rid of him.

    Yes, but then I have to trust one person who I have interviewed... not another company full of people who I haven't interviewed.
     
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  13. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    Sure, the risk might be lower, but you're still not 100% secure. Which is what Phoenix was getting at I believe unless I misunderstood?

    Don't get me wrong Mike, I am skeptical about security as well and I am with you on that. This is why I posted my original question as to those who did or are doing it, what was the reason behind it? We all know security is very important when it comes to our networks.
     
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  14. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Mike is evaluating the technology from his individual perspective, and it doesn't fit for him
    Half the point of the cloud is selection, so you can't fault him for that :)

    Fortunately, much like the virtualization naysayers 10 years ago, Mike is not the norm :P
     
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  15. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    My job isn't to be 100% secure... my job is to minimize risk. I can do that by storing my own data on my own servers.

    Again, if someone wants to jump feet first into the Cloud, by all means, they can do so. I don't need it.
     
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  16. BosonMichael
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    Actually, I don't know *any* techs outside of the forums who are looking to actively move to the Cloud. Maybe I just hang out with a bunch of abnorms. :blink :D
     
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  17. dales

    dales Gigabyte Poster

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    Sorry to jump in on the "discussion" isn't the cloud just new terms for stuff we've been doing for years my hotmail account for instance seems to me to be a SaaS cloud product, what about bandwidth constraints, I dont know about america, but england still has rather slow links to t'interwebs even the corporate pipes, I do wonder what advantage it would be to have several fat pipes for the purpose of users getting at their apps/data that would have originally been on their (free/low cost) lan connection without the greater risk of speed bottlenecks and complete loss of service should the internet connection go for any reason.

    I do like the idea but like the google netbook, without a connection it renders anything lan side useless does it not!? Maybe I'm just not seeing it being only part of a medium sized enterprise we have no need or capital for it, but I would certainly lay a few quid down on a book about it should one exist?!
     
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  18. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    perhaps not actively move to it
    but as dales points out, plenty of them already USE the cloud weather they know it or not
    your argument and position would indicate your against that type of data collocation anyway, which again i'm not saying isn't valid, just that the cloud is taking off in a big way because of it's benefits, it can have it's downsides and most things are risk reward conversations

    :)
     
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  19. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Sure, they're using it... but usually for non-essential, non-confidential data. That's fine. But I wouldn't store, for example, a company's customer database there...
     
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  20. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    But many many others would
    and we are really still talking about Public Clouds only really,
    not Private clouds which for the most part do not have the concerns you are raising attached to them


    Question, would you store your data at a collocation facility with a locked rack that you owned everything inside of it? plenty of people do that, and it's the first step, they trust that the network cable they are given is secure

    Most the Public cloud stuff I work on has legal documents informing customers that they are the key holders, if they lose the master key, i have no way of helping them, there is no 'back door' for me to work through on their behalf, i think lack of understanding of the tech, and lack of trust for the service provider will be the main holdouts that slow down adoption though, hopefully not enough to stop the ball rolling though :)
    Service providers have to earn that trust over time, without any major **** ups! :)
     
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