1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Clean Air?

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by AJ, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

    6,773
    102
    221
    So to our good friends north of the border, How is the first day of the smoking ban. For those of you who live outside the UK read THIS.

    Scotland is the first part of the UK to have a smoking ban in all public places.

    Was just wondering if anyone had noticed any difference?
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCSA (messaging), ITIL Foundation v3
    WIP: Looking at doing ..................
  2. mrvolleyball

    mrvolleyball Bit Poster

    40
    1
    3
    Can't wait until they bring in the ban over here aswell (Northern Ireland), shame it isn't happening until this time next year.
    Will be nice to come from a pub without your clothes smelling like an ashtray.
     
  3. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

    9,915
    60
    229
    Seems pretty well-observed so far, AJ, although I wasn't in any previously "smokable" establishments today. Saying that, I passed quite a few of our local hostelries, and all seemed to be displaying the no smoking sign (one even put up a butt bin outside). As a smoker myself, I have no real probs with the ban - I don't smoke in our house, and hate people smoking when I'm eating anyway (our favourite restaurant had a smoking lounge far from the eating areas, but I can live without it)

    TV coverage was positive and everyone so far seems to be taking this fully on board without any probs. One interesting point - I was out in my folks garden this afternoon for a smoke (will not smoke in their house either) and this opens onto a public car park. For the first time, I actually felt I was doing something insociable and didn't feel too comfortable if anyone went past.

    One thing made me laugh - a lot of reports are saying of how folk are going into smoke-free pubs now, and realising just how bogging ("deeply unpleasant" to you foreigners :wink: ) a pub actually smells !!! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  4. cazzam35

    cazzam35 Kilobyte Poster

    445
    2
    44
    Yeah, you'll just smell of stale old beer instead!!

    Oh and i'm a smoker too. And like like to think i respect people
    who don't smoke while I do. This means if I go out to eat and
    your allowed to smoke, I tend not too incase the person next
    to me doesn't smoke.

    I can however, and will smoke in my own car, and home, I paid
    for them so its my choice.

    I had a good arguament the other day, by a non smoker who
    said when i go into hospital, she begrudges paying for my
    treatment if its smoke related .......

    I informed her of the following, I've smoked for almost 25 yrs
    now, and i've probably generated and paid an extra £1200 per
    year in taxes compared to a non smoker, this is roughly £30,000
    extra tax in my lifetime.

    When, and it will be when, I get a smoke related illness, I feel
    that i've paid my bill well in advance, and don't need to thank a
    non-smoker for anything, Although the millions of people who
    generate billions of £'s a year to keep the NHS going, are now
    getting the slap in the face for doing it.

    Us smokers have paid our bills, and most of yours too!!!

    One question to the non-smokers really, are you now going to
    pay the extra few grand a year in your taxes for me to stop?
    This is reality as everyone's taxes will be going up to pay for
    all the smokers revenue, which will be lost.

    PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT having a go at anyone here who does
    not smoke, you have the 100% right not to inhale my fumes,
    and I for one minute wouldn't expect you too.
    What I do is my choice, but if you get knocked over by a car,
    and I don't drive, then why should my taxes pay your bill???
    Or just cos you have a car and I don't then I should inhale
    your fumes, Do we ban driving in public places????

    I for one, do wish to stop smoking before the inevitable happens
    and one day I will, but I don't drink, so why should I put up with
    drunks puking up over my car, or pissing on my doorstep???

    I've finished my rant anyway, cheers
     
    Certifications: currently doing A+/MCSE
    WIP: Curr/Supervisor/Duty Mgr/Retail DIY
  5. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

    5,215
    98
    181
    Cyprus has THE highest number of smokers per population and the highest under 21 smoking (85%!! :eek: :eek: ) the EU told them to implement it and the goverment is so scared its even considering leaving the EU because cypriots just cant live without smoking in public! :x
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  6. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

    6,773
    102
    221
    The smoking debat is a hot cookie and as a no smoker I am delighted to hear that some smokers are more sensitive to the non smokers. I hate it when people light up close to me when I'm eating and it will be a delight to go for a drink and not come back sticking of smoke.

    I have worked in the licenced trade for nearly 20 years and this is going to hit the trade big time. But it will adjust and boiunce back. I think the biggest problem is the way the law will be enforced. It is another law that the publican has to enforce for the police. Landlords have enough to do never mind watching for people smoking in their pubs. Looking out for underage drinkers in a big enough jobs.

    On another tack, telling lorry drivers that they can't smoke in their cabs is stupid. A long distance driver from the continant delivering to Scotland will have to put out their smokes when they cross the border.

    As a no smoker I welcome the new law when it comes to England. I only hope that Parliment will look at how this law has worked in Scotland and later Northern Ireland and hopefully improve it so it becomes a bit more workable for those that have to enforce it. (and that my beer tokens still remain in my pocket and not the governments).
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCSA (messaging), ITIL Foundation v3
    WIP: Looking at doing ..................
  7. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    I was a non smoker until the age of 35. That was 15 years ago. What annoys me most, is that during my formative years, it was fine for everyone and anyone to smoke over and around me. Smoking was very popular in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Pubs and bars would always be foggy with smoke. Millions of people smokers and non-smokers would have been breathing in other peoples smoke and it was advertised as sexy and cool. Now purely because of anti smoking advertising, people think it is daggy and un-cool. People are sheep, they just follow the leader.

    How many people have I heard of that have contracted lung cancer through passive smoking - None, well except that trumpet playing guy who blamed smoke for his cancer and coined the phrase passive smoking in the first place. No real evidence to support his claim but it suited the non-smokers to believe it as a fact.

    Now people have been aware that smoking has been linked to cancer and other unpleasant illnesses throughout this whole period. The campaigners have upped the anti but it has always been known to be an unhealthy pursuit. There are other unhealthy pursuits, such as drinking which can lead to alcoholism and or liver problems or even death due to alcoholic poisoning. When is alcohol going to be banned???

    I feel this banning thing is an infringement on my public liberty, especially as I happily put up with people smoking around me when it was so popular. Now I am made to feel like an outcast, that just can't be right.

    Rant only just begun :twisted:
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  8. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

    5,369
    85
    190
    I automatically think public carpark / garden + insociable = dogging! :biggrin

    Sorry...
     
  9. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154
    Well having read your exhaustive scientific survey on passive smoking *cough* that because nobody you know has died of passive smoking it must be a myth etc.., maybe you ought to read this.

    I guess all their links to established and extensive scientific studies on the subject must just all be propaganda etc...

    I don't want this to come across like I am attacking you, because it isn't meant that way. But sweeping genralisations do irritate me somewhat.

    As for someone elses point about, what will we do if we don't have the tax revenue from smoking to help fund the NHS.

    Well yes, we will have to pay higher taxes, end of story. I don't like it, but I live in the UK and have benefitted from the NHS when I needed it a few years ago, and I accept that living in the UK means I pay into sustaining such bodies as the NHS. If in the future this means that there are virtually no smokers and thus much less revenue, then so be it. I'd rather that situation than in other countries where you have health insurance etc.. and if you are below or near the poverty line then you have to make hard decisions about wether you can afford to have medical treatment or not. I'd hate to be in that position myself ...
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  10. cazzam35

    cazzam35 Kilobyte Poster

    445
    2
    44

    and neither will thousands of other people when you work out
    it could be an extra £150 per month of your wages all because
    i've packed in smoking ( or been forced too)

    If i take my daughter out for a meal, I take her to a non-smoking
    bar or restaurant, thats my choice, if I go out with mates who
    smoke, I should be able to choose to go to a pub where I can
    smoke or not!!

    If I smoke in my garden, then blow my smoke over the fence, is
    it my fault you walk past at that time and breathe it in?? Am I
    asking you to breathe??? lol

    There will never be a win or lose situation here, but like most
    people I know who smoke, I wouldn't light up if I was in a bar
    you were eating, thats my choice to do that, now its being
    forced down your throat, most people may rebel against that
    thought.

    As my point said earlier about drunks, and the trouble caused
    with that, if they did something so drastic about that, there
    would be holy hell on becuse of it.

    Lets see how much valuable police time is wasted cos someone
    lit a fag up in a bar, while some poor old lady is being mugged.
    (Not that i wish this ever to happen though)

    :banned :bla :bla :bla
     
    Certifications: currently doing A+/MCSE
    WIP: Curr/Supervisor/Duty Mgr/Retail DIY
  11. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154

    Sorry mate, but have you anything to back that up? That sounds like a random figure plucked out of thin air.

    As for the somking ban in public places, which I didn't comment on at first. I'm all for it, I'm sick of going into places and having no choice other than to leave if other people are smoking in there. There are plenty of considerate smokers who don't smoke in area's even when they have the choice too, but there are far more who don't care and will also smoke in area's that are supposed to be no smoking. Breathing others smoke makes me feel physically ill, so I feel quite strongly about it.

    Bans like this are coming into effect in many western countries now, and as far as I'm concerned, great! Sooner the better and the stricter the better.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  12. cazzam35

    cazzam35 Kilobyte Poster

    445
    2
    44
    It was totally plucked out of thin air mate....

    We will probably never know the true figures, but smokers
    contribute billions in taxes? I know i'm paying a lot more tax
    than someone earning the same as me per month, but as I smoke
    I probably pay an extra £150 or more a month cos I smoke, thats
    not made up. My point is, that revenue the government will be
    losing has to be found somewhere?

    As for going out and not wanting to be near smokers, good on
    you, as i've said, if I was out and near you and you weren't
    smoking,
    I'd probably not light up, but then you have the choice to go to
    a pub where they allow smoking, exactly the same choice that
    I have to go to a pub that allows it or doesn't?

    I'm not, and haven't had a go at anyone here who doesn't smoke,
    just as long as your aware that when we all pack in, taxes will
    rise a hell of a lot, but when i pack in smoking, I suppose it won't
    really bother me cos i'm used to paying it out in different ways?

    Lets see in a few years all these anti smokers moaning that there
    is no health service, cos theres no money, god its bad enough
    now ( the NHS ) its about to get a real battering.

    I'm not saying you don't have the right not to breathe in my
    smoke but like Blue, I should have the right to smoke if I so
    wish too. Again that choice being mine to go where they allow
    you to smoke, and your choice not to go there?
     
    Certifications: currently doing A+/MCSE
    WIP: Curr/Supervisor/Duty Mgr/Retail DIY
  13. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    @Modey

    From the first paragraph of your first link.

    This is all propaganda hog wash. I honestly do believe these people are on a campaign of anti-smoking and they are getting funded because it is a popular bandwagon now.

    As I said in my original post, smoking was so common in the 60's 70's and 80's that it would have been totally impossible to avoid breathing in someone else's smoke. All public places allowed smoking, including cinemas, restaurants, pubs, clubs. The air was thick with smoke whilst *I* was a non-smoker.

    How can it be possible to do a proper study where the effects of smoke, can be accurately determined when there are no human subjects to monitor that have ever existed in a smoke free environment?

    Also, how could the scientists be certain that lung cancer hasn't been caused by something else? There are many pollutants in our atmosphere, car exhaust fumes, emissions from factories, and natural toxic gases. In order for a scientific experiment to be accurate in determining the exact effect, you would need to be able to take the same person and live two lives. One where they kept for their entire life in a clean air bubble and another where the same person would live an entire life as a passive smoker. Because this is impossible to do, the scientists come up with theories which are impossible to disprove.

    That is why I didn't quote any so-called facts because to me they are not facts, they are indeed propaganda.

    Oh and I don't believe in global warming either or that the hole in the ozone layer hasn't always been there and is a natural occurrence.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  14. cazzam35

    cazzam35 Kilobyte Poster

    445
    2
    44
    :duel I agree to all of the above
     
    Certifications: currently doing A+/MCSE
    WIP: Curr/Supervisor/Duty Mgr/Retail DIY
  15. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154
    Well hey, I'm not a scientist or health expert. But there is plenty of incontravertable evidence that inhaling smoke is very bad for your health and can damage you lungs and also lead to a host of related illnesses.

    That's just in the UK and refers to actual smokers rather than passive smokers. Are you trying to maintain that passive smoking is in fact harmless and can't possibly damage your health? I think anyone who thinks that is not willing to face reality.

    It does remind me a little of the big tobbaco giants in the US who up until recently were refusing to admit that that smoking could damage people's health. That was until they lost a landmark civil action and had to pay out literally billions. The largest ever payout in any civil case I believe. But I guess they would never stoop to things such as propaganda to protect one of the biggest and highest profit making organisations in the world.

    I'm not going to convince you otherwise, which is fine you will have to believe what you believe. I simply chose to believe those who know much better than me and are experts in their respective fields. Are people like this always 100% correct? Of course not, but they I can guarentee that they know a damn site more that your average joe on the subject and can give me information based on knowledge, experience and scientific study, rather than ... I think it's propaganda because they need a bandwagon at the moment ...

    It's a choice for you to either light up or not in a place that allows smoking. I don't however feel that the option to feel ill and in time to damage my health by being in that place is any kind of choice at all.

    I think it's great that some of you are as considerate smokers as you say you are. If everyone was, then I don't think there would as much of a push on the current legislation as there already is.

    Are the motives of the politicians who back these changes always pure? I doubt it, and I'd be niave to think that was the case. It doesn't stop me agreeing with the changes though.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  16. Duckie

    Duckie Nibble Poster

    66
    1
    27
    As a non-smoker and an asthmatic I welcome the new laws and look forward to them coming in in England.

    I have no issue in general with people smoking - that's their choice (which is fair enough as long as I don't have to breath it in also as that my choice). I know quite a few smokers and most of them are considerate - they wouldn't dream of lighting up whilst people were eating and take care to blow smoke away from the non-smokers etc

    It's the inconsiderate ones that annoy me though. It's the person stood next to you at the bus stop that no matter where you move to seems to blow the smoke right at you. Its the person in a crowded area walking around with their cigarette stretched out into the throng of people narrowly missing burning someone's clothes or body parts.

    Of course the new legislation won't stop the inconsiderate person at the bus stop and instead of smoke filled pubs and enclosed spaces we'll have smoke filled entrances which in some ways is worse since it's a small condensed area (whenever I have to pass through the entrance to the MetroCentre it's like walking through a viery cloud of smoke and usually prompts a big coughing fit - soon I'll be able to look forward to the same pleasure going into pubs and other places affected by the ban lol).

    It will be nice though to come back from a pub lunch or a drink after work without smelling like a chimney!

    I do respect everyone's opinions and understand that this is a subject that people tend to have strong views on - with that in mind I think it's great that we're able to express our individual opinions and thoughts here in a mature manner 8)

    ~Duckie
     
    Certifications: MCDST, MOS 2003
  17. cazzam35

    cazzam35 Kilobyte Poster

    445
    2
    44
    Both my parents died from heart desease, my best mate had cancer and my nephew was diagnosed with throat cancer.
    Without trying to use them as examples, non of them smoked?
    Go figure, I suppose we'll just have to blame passive for that.

    I'm not saying smoking isn't bad for you, but so is excessive drinking, driving a car, god even waking up now can be a killer.

    I personally blame all the additives and coffee for bad health, oh
    sorry I eat loads of crap, and drink 30 cups a day....

    Oh hold on, I also smoke too, I'm a gonna really........:rolleyes:
     
    Certifications: currently doing A+/MCSE
    WIP: Curr/Supervisor/Duty Mgr/Retail DIY
  18. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154
    Well indeed Cazzam, it would appear 'everything' is bad for you these days and I think it can get a little crazy. I should probably drink less coffee and eat a healthier diet, but noone is perfect. :)
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  19. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    I am not willing to face *your* reality Modey :biggrin

    The majority of people smoked whilst I was growing up and did so for decades and yet the majority of people did not die from smoking related illnesses, although I acknowledge that some did. In fact, over the last century peoples longevity has improved and now people are living longer than they ever have.

    I know inhaling condensed smoke directly into the lungs is bad for you. It must be because the scientists say so. They came to this conclusion by getting dogs (beagles) and forcing them to smoke about 20 cigarettes at a time all day long. This apparently gives an accurate method to calculate the detrimental effect on humans. Well I may not be a scientist but this research was so wrong in so many different ways it's laughable. The images of the mistreated animals will stay with me forever.

    The question is whether breathing in a minuscule amount of somebody else's cooled smoke can give you cancer. I would have to say I don't think so. If this were true, then every smoker that had smoked a whole packet of cigarettes would get cancer. The reality is, the people that have developed cancer have smoked many cigarettes a day, some people 40 or more for 30 or more years. I am sure a quick whiff in a doorway is not going to be detrimental to your long term heath.

    People can believe what they like but personally as far as I am concerned the evidence against passive smoking is highly questionable and unscientific.

    I am a very thoughful smoker, I don't even throw my butts on the ground, I carry a personal ashtray.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  20. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154
    Ok Blue, we aren't going to see eye to eye, fair enough.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada

Share This Page

Loading...