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Clarification on what is Ad-hoc

Discussion in 'A+' started by UCHEEKYMONKEY, Sep 17, 2006.

  1. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Why is Ad-hoc mode less secure than using WPA2?

    with reference to the following thread:-

    A+ Wireless Question


    That doesn't make sense? and neither does the book!

    If you use wireless does mean each node has to be set up with a different SSID? Unlike Ad-hoc that has to have the same SSID configuation?

    Also because Ad-hoc as the same SSID configuation is that why it is less secure than wirless with WEP?
     
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  2. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Just to explain why I put this thread here and not under Networking:-

    I am stuck on this bit in the A+ Mike meyers section.

    It just doesn't make sense:(
     
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  3. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Ummm.... Ad-hoc is a method for structuring a wireless network. WPA2 is a security measure for encrypting wireless traffic.

    Asking what you're asking is like asking "Why is IIS less secure than using SSL?", at least that's the first analogy that came to me.
     
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  4. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    That's a Pants answer Freddy even for you!

    I guess I will have to go to wait for someone else who has the spare time to answer my silly question!

    Right MM states that WAP broadcasts their SSID by default which is a security risk, unlike ad-hoc which can not be setup with default SSID
     
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  5. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Huh? I answered the question you asked. You asked about why an ad-hoc network is less secure than using WPA2. Ad-hoc is a method of constructing a network. WPA2 is a form of encryption. The two terms are unrelated other than both concepts are used in a wireless network.

    Did you mean WAP rather than WPA2?

    Take a look at the attached file and see if that doesn't answer your original question, as you asked it.... Hopefully the text will be readable at the level of compression required for attachments here.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Baba O'Riley

    Baba O'Riley Gigabyte Poster

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    I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick here UCM. Ad-hoc mode is two or more wireless clients connected directly to each other. The physical analogy would be every computer wired to every other computer like a mesh topology. The opposite of Ad-hoc mode is Inrastructure mode is where they all connect through a central WAP - same as a physical star topology.

    Both modes can use the same security protocols and in both cases all devices must use the same SSID. The default SSID should never be used for security reasons, the same as the default administrator's password should never be used.
     
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  7. Kraven

    Kraven Kilobyte Poster

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    Ad-Hoc is basically peer to peer networking, in ad-hoc mode wireless enabled computers communicate with each other directly without using an access point. Simple...

    Kraven
     
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  8. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    I appologise Freddy - I thought WPA2 was WEP?:oops:
     
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  9. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Thanks Baba

    That does make sense.

    My A+ exam is Looning and I am panicing because a lot of the stuff in MM book still doesn't make sense!:(
     
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  10. phonics3k

    phonics3k Nibble Poster

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    WPA2 and WEP are both forms of encryption for your Wireless network.
     
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  11. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    No problem, cheeky.

    You're still confusing concepts or having a lot of typo's. WEP, WPA, and WPA2 are methods of encrypting wireless traffic. WAP is a central access point for all computers on a centralized wireless network. Ad-hoc is all computers being directly linked to each other.

    Think "star" configuration in an ethernet network using a switch when you visualize using a WAP. All computers can communicate with each other, but not directly. All traffic must pass through the switch.

    Think point-to-point connections in an ad-hoc network. Visualize each computer having as many NIC's as there are computers in the network, minus 1, and from each of those NIC's there is a network cable running to each of the other computers on the network.

    Just as SSL is a method for encrypting wired ethernet traffic so WEP, WPA, and WPA2 are methods of encrypting wireless traffic. However, these three methods of traffic encryption are unrelated to what form of wireless network structure you use. They can be used no matter how you structure your network: point-to-point, or "star" configuration.
     
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  12. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Good answer, Baba. I didn't see your post before I posted mine.
     
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  13. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    So Ad-hoc network does not go through a hub but is connected via cables. While WEP and WAP are connected via the hub?

    Like WAN and LANs?
     
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  14. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Arrr...i have just got it!

    SSL is used for wired connections while WEP WPA and WPA2 can only be used for wirless networks!
     
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  15. phonics3k

    phonics3k Nibble Poster

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    Ok, Ad-Hoc (Peer 2 Peer) does not go through a hub no, so you have that bit correct.

    but, WEP is an encryption method which means its more of a method than a device, does that make sense?

    WAP as in Wireless Access Point? Most WAP's have cables to other networks connected to them but that is just confusing matters a little.


    Maybe this will help you a little :D

    http://computer.howstuffworks.com/wireless-network.htm
     
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  16. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Sort of:blink

    So Wifi is the replacement of infra-red?
     
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  17. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    No, I'm giving you an analogy of wireless compared to wired networks.

    An ethernet network using a switch is considered to be a "star" configuration because the switch is a central connection point for all the computers hooked into that switch.

    A WAP (wireless access point) functions exactly like the switch in the wired network. All computers must communicate through it.

    An ad-hoc wired network doesn't have any networking components other than the NIC's on each computer. Each computer would have an ethernet cable running to each of the other computers from separate NIC's installed on each computer. In other words, the network would actually be many little networks comprised of two computers hooked together with corssover cables. But since all computers are hooked into all other computers they can all communicate with each other.

    An ad-hoc wireless network functions in much the same way. There are no network components other than the wireless cards on each computer. The computers communicate directly with each other.

    Go back and take a look at the .jpg image I attached to my second post. The figure on the left represents a wireless network using a WAP. The lines between the central point and each computer are not wires, but show how the traffic flows in a wireless network using a WAP.

    The figure on the right shows an ad-hoc network. The lines represent how the communication will flow between computers. Notice that there is no central way of authenticating any of the computers or any central point of communcation between computers. They each contact the other computers in the network directly.
     
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  18. phonics3k

    phonics3k Nibble Poster

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    No Bluetooth is more of a replacement for infra-red, but again thats off topic :D

    WiFi is just an easy way to share a network where you cant get a wired network or where you dont want to see cables :D

    If anyone thinks differently then please tell me :D
     
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  19. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Sorry.. just to clarify if you use ad-hoc wireless you can only communicate with one other computer and not the others shown in the diagram because there is no central switch?
     
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  20. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    No. Take a look at the diagram on the right again. Pay close attention to each of the lines that represent routes of communication between computers.

    Say the top left computer is CompA. Then name them CompB, C, D, etc, in a clockwise fashion. Are there lines of communication between CompA, CompB, CompC, and CompD? If so why would CompA be only able to communicate with only CompB? Why wouldn't it be able to communicate with C and D also?
     
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