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'Borrowed' Internet connection!

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by simongrahamuk, Nov 5, 2005.

  1. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    This is great!

    My Wireless Internet connection is currently turned off because I'm having some plastering done where it usually goes, so I've 'borrowed' my neighbours connection!

    They really should secure it!

    He knows I'm using it because I told him that I could easilly get onto it, and even offered to show him how to secure it, but he said he's not bothered!

    It just made me realise just how easy it would be for me to get onto the net and use up his bandwidth without him even knowing about it!

    I've even connected to his router as he doesn't have a password set on it!

    :blink
     
  2. noelg24

    noelg24 Terabyte Poster

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    well that is classed as criminal offence simon but if he is aware of it and you have told him about it and even showed him to how secure his network then the next time someone else joins his network and they do something bad to it...well you cant say you didnt warn him...quite frankly I think this guy is losing the plot...
     
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  3. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

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    Oh really Noel, and what Act of Parliament says using a numpty's unsecured broadband connection is a criminal offence? There isn't one! So no it is not a criminal offence! :x

    What should be a criminal offence is the act of a fool who allows their Wireless network to be unsecured!
     
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  4. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

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    Well look at it this way. You would be taking something that isn't yours, namely someone elses bandwidth. Now as far as I'm aware that constitutes theft and that is a criminal offence. If you asked first and got an agreement then there is no problem but just to take that connection because you can is a deff no no.
     
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  5. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    This is a complex issue which has been discussed on the Internet in various places before. The law is of course dependant on where you live, and with the US and Australia, possibly the state you live in. I doubt there is specific legislation at this time in the UK but I could be wrong.

    Personally I think it is more of a moral issue.

    Here is a decent article Stealing your neighbours net
     
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  6. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

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    AJ, my question was "what Act of Parliament says using a numpty's unsecured broadband connection is a criminal offence?"

    From your answer you are trying to interpret the law on theft to fit this situation, however, that's up to a judge/magistrate to do! No law fits Simon’s activities and no judge/magistrate has yet been called upon to try and fit an existing law to the prospective offence!

    The law concerning radio frequencies and the theft of one's communications link is more or less non-existent in this country.

    I myself am surprised that wireless networks have been permitted in this country as transmitting without a license contravenes the Telegraphy Act of 1922 (year maybe wrong).

    Just to put this in perspective, do you remember those devices that transmitted your sky TV over the radio waves that enabled you to watch sky in every room? The name of the device was called "The Rabbit". Now the problem with this device was the fact that it did its job too well - turned out that the whole street could pick up one house's sky TV by simply tuning in to "The Rabbits" frequency! Now does that constitute theft? I think the govt (early 90s) at the time made a big deal about it because it contravened the Telegraphy Act on Transmission!

    I'd be a bit careful on quoting "criminal offences" on wireless/radio communications because the law surrounding it is rather different to more tangible transmissions media!
     
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  7. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Drum/ Guys - can I interrupt just to say that this is a damn good topic for discussion, but can we conduct it without flame, angry smileys, reference to either side of the debate as "numpties", etc, etc ?

    It's a good discussion - let's keep it good :)
     
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  8. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Mobile phones transmit, radio remote controls transmit, cordless phones transmit. I believe it depends on the specific broadcast band and that the 802.x wireless specification gets around this act.

    Pete
     
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  9. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

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    Hey D_D that was just my gut reaction but after reading your informative post I thought I'd to some checking on this issue. Seems that it has been dicussed before on other forums. A quick Google brought THIS up.

    There also seems to be a lot of differing thoughts on the issue. Now I am the first to admit that I am no expert in the Law, that's for the legal beagles.

    Here are a few quotes from that discussion

    I haven't researched those quotes, just taken them directly from that discussion, but it seems to me that there is more to this subject, law wise, than meets the eye. It's not just "AJ says is theft", (doh) there are other laws at work that may or may not actually protect a wireless bandwidth.

    How ever I shall end with the thought that whilst it may not be against the law to use someone elses bandwidth without them knowing, is it morally right and as IT professionals should we be seen to be endorsing such acts and as Simon did advicing people to secure their networks, but that may beanother discussion.
     
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  10. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Jak the reference to *numpties* was not directed at a poster here but rather to the person broadcasting the unsecured wireless network.

    Otherwise I agree, keep it calm :biggrin
     
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  11. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

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    AJ, well done on the informative post...MOST informative cheers m8!

    Bluerinse, you pay for a license in your mobile bill...? The cell company have bought the license!!!!!

    Gav, there is no flaming and please stop singling me out on heated discussions! If you want to single someone out then perhaps start on the person who decided to label an act as a criminal offence without first researching it!...

    also....

    "Numpty" refers to the idiot human beings that fail to secure their Wireless connection. However, if you want to be "PC", the next time you refer to someone as being a "posh tw@t" I’ll be there to pick u up on it! And if you don't want angry similes to be used then take 'em out of the emoticon selection!
     
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  12. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    OK Guys, if you don't like my comments above, then I apologise for any offence inadvertently caused. However, can I repeat the main point of what I said please ?


    "It's a good discussion - let's keep it good"
     
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  13. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    Just a few items.

    If someone wants to share their Internet connection, then it's not stealing...they are sharing it.

    I don't know about other countries but the reason anyone can set up an 802.11a/b/g network is that those frequencies are not regulated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). I think they are the same frequency ranges that are alloted to medical devices but I'd have to look up the exact reason.

    Cordless phones use freqs of 2.4 GHz just like 802.11b/g and 900 MHz. Not all radio bands are government regulated. Of course this is why you have so many wireless networks close to hand, occasionally interfering with each other.

    Wireless security is not often used by the casual home user or even many small businesses. I'd think an enterprising wireless tech could make a small living advertising their services to help them set up security so that bandwidth hijackers wouldn't be able to ride the airwaves for free.
     
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  14. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

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    D_D

    I first posted in good faith saying that I thought it was theft. That was my personal opinon. However, after reading your post I took the trouble to find out a bit more about the subject and posted my finding. I could just have easily walked away from the subject and not replied.

    Time to chill and grab a beer m8
     
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  15. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

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    AJ, I was refering to noel's initial reply...not yours, sorry for the confusion.
     
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  16. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

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    No probs my friend, but it's still beer time :biggrin
     
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  17. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

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    I've got 2 cans of Carlsberg in front of me! £2.58p for 4 from Tescos...thats 500ml cans too!!!
     
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  18. corbpm

    corbpm Bit Poster

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    A friend of mine had the same problem, a unsecured wireless network next door, his very unfriendly fix was to secure it for them without telling them. They bought another router which he fixed for them again, they then learnt how to secure it themselves. Dont approve of this method myself, thought he would have been better having a friendly chat at least first. It cost them money and was a slightly harsh lesson to give a newbie on security.
     
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  19. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    corb, that definatly is illegal

    as for simons position, it could be construed as a criminal offense, it depends how the judge looks at it, the related legislation is the Computer Misuse Act of 1990
    which i quote below

    the crime is not using there connection, its using your computer in a manner which is deemed wrong
    accessing anothers system and locking it down is unauthorised access, and access to program/data which was knowingly performed

    simon connected not only to the net, but to the router itself, an unauthorised cnnection to a system not belonging to him,

    kind of depends how you look at the action taken by the individuals :)
     
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  20. noelg24

    noelg24 Terabyte Poster

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    drum_dude clearly you didnt hear the story about a man who was put away for using various peoples wireless networks to connect to the internet....this guy would sit within a range of the persons house and using his laptop he would find a wireless network that wasnt encrypted...join it and then start using their internet connection...and he was caught and arrested for it...cant remember how long he was put away for...but correct me if I am wrong wouldnt you say that IS a criminal offence? Lets say someone joined your network without your knowledge and started using your internet connection that YOU pay for...how would u feel and how would u react to that? I know I wouldnt like it...and to be perfectly honest Phoenix has summed it all up for you...I rest my case...thank you and good nite...for now...

    EDIT: found the link about the guy who got arrested

    http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/07/technology/personaltech/wireless_arrest/

    if that aint a criminal offence I dont know what is...
     
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