Are you setting yourself up to fail?

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That's OK Trip! I didn't take offence by your original post, just wanted to get the message across to people that there are no short cuts in IT and no pots of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I hope people will read this and learn by it and when they ask that immortal question how long does it take to do MCSE or which is the quickest language to learn or the best cert to get my pot of gold, they can stop and read this and learn by it!!

Who knows!! It may save them money and time!

 

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Thank you Warrmr

For sharing your experience with employers and yes I agree with there about learning providers trying to offer you jobs garenteed at 18,000 per year yes we should laugh at them!

There's advert for this in the local paper (I won't mention there name here for legal reasons) but they offer the same thing training, 18K year and job at the end of it!

What job are you in now?

 

Im just still a bartender, looking to get my foot in the door to the world of IT. I only had my first interview friday and i have spent the last month or so getting my CV out there.

Im also partially regretting paying what i did for this course as it seems like i am rushing through things. But on the other hand im doing it cos i love to learn. Monday i start the classroom sessions for my MCSE, i have 2 exams to take before i get MCSA+messaging. But the tutor there thinks that by me carrying on and heading upto the MCSE class i will keep my mind on the game and also one of the modules will help me revise for 70-291.

Im also cautious about there job garentee ( i think im with the provider you saw the advert for in the paper) but they promise a 18k job within 3 months of passing MCSA + messaging or they pay your course fees.

still unsure what to do I know i will continue with the course as it has cost me money and there is no reason not to. but as for getting a job im finding it increasingly hard

 

I must say I am impressed by your determination and the knowledge you have acquired already!

You have to excuse any spelling errors here like you I have had very little sleep. Just got in today at 5am to go to bed and the get up again at 7:30am to take my sister to work!

What about local hospitals or local councils have written to their IT Departments? Even if it's a voluntary work it's still work experience at the end of the day?

Have a look at this article written by Arroryn called:-

The First Rung - Getting a Job in IT

also this one written by arisen

How i got into IT

Good luck and keep us posted how got on!

 

Thanks dmarsh26

 

Agreed. No worries.

 

Not as much experience as some but still 2 exams under my belt, so I'll chip in 2-pence

I use it as a learning exercise, but mostly as revision.

Learning - as I have only worked in a secure environment we have particular guidelines about why we're not allowed to use compression and EFS encryption (as an example as I'm studying that at the mo!). Not everything in my current course (70-271) will be found in my job.

Revision - everything that I can do and falls outside of the above, I use certification as a method to show myself and my employer (and future employers) that I am able to do what is needed for the job. I'm not a believer that you should use it to learn new things as a whole especially if it puts you at a disadvantage when looking for work ie, knowing more than your experience shows.

There are always nuances in any setup that meets a companies design so learning everything on the job can be a little hard sometimes!

When I have done my revision and its about 3/4 weeks away to when I think I'll be as ready, I then look at booking the exam.

With difficulty sometimes. I picked up my recent book in July and read through about 150 pages. I put it down as I planned our around-Europe-by-train holiday which took many weeks. After the holiday, it was 2 months exactly (according to the last note I wrote in a word doc) since I had picked up the book. I think my best method is study when I feel like it - and not push yourself to doing it - it'll end up being a chore which you may end up regretting.

As I'm only in my 2nd job in IT it's hard to answer this one.
When I went for my 1st line job, I was working towards my A+. It was for general interest as well as the basis of my career, and so I sold it to my employers like that.
As progression, I moved into 2nd line desktop support, still working towards the A+ but had a good 8 months experience behind me which helped.

For my next move, I won't consider it (unless redundancy, pushed or offered on a plate) until I get my MCDST and 70-270 done - until I'm confident that I have covered the basics and advanced levels of client support. The next move would be into server support - AD, clusters and such like - going in too green would leave me at a disadvantage but I wouldn't apply for the job until I had a clear understanding of what (for example) AD was and did and the advantages for it. So I suppose, starting to read for the compulsory server MS exam but in no way really learning/revising - just a basic understanding.

As I know the server team in my current position, I'll be offering to work after work (finish at 3.30pm) for nothing and volunteer with them so I get hands-on exposure which should help when I want to make that next move.

And only then, after working in the job would I consider jumping back on the cert band-wagon - I may hate it, why work hard outside of work for something I hated!!

Learning is not just about the destination, it is about the journey. To know the basics is one thing, to understand how a network is made up and how the packets travel around perhaps, but to be absolutely immersed in an area (desktop, server/AD, network support, system management...whatever) is the best basis for a rewarding and successful career.

Another way of looking at it - do you just want to "do" a job, or do you want to make a career out of it - I know I'm the latter.

Dumping is only used for one thing...... I'll leave that to imagination b

 

Thank you Derkitthumbleft

"Learning is not just about the destination, it is about the journey. To know the basics is one thing, to understand how a network is made up and how the packets travel around perhaps, but to be absolutely immersed in an area (desktop, server/AD, network support, system management...whatever) is the best basis for a rewarding and successful career."


QFT

Spot on there, it is difficult to maintain motivation and set a schedule for study time if you have family commitments or if you have health/money problems. I think you have to take this into account when training for IT skills or jumping on the band Wagon.

Big thankyou to everyone here who put aside some of their precious time to answer this thread. I hope it will reassure some people out there. That there's no easy route and anything worth while in life is never straight forward.

 

Sorry for the delay, UCM. This post was important enough that I needed to devote a little time to craft it.

When studying for a certification, I have a goal of studying until I completely understand the concepts... not being able to simply memorize a bunch of stuff, but being able to fully explain a concept. In my job, I have to. It's one thing to tell someone, "Answer A is correct." But it takes an additional layer of understanding to be able to explain, "Answer A is correct BECAUSE...". Ultimately, this makes me a better tech in the long term.

I study until I'm ready, then I book my exam for the next day. I don't set myself arbitrary deadlines. After all, I might have trouble comprehending a subject near the end of my studies... why try to cram it all in, and risk not gaining a full understanding of the subject? It's not a race. Take your time, and learn it completely.

How do I not keep my motivation? If you love IT, you will continue to pursue knowledge and understanding. If you don't, you won't. Those who continue to learn will advance, and those who do not will stagnate and be left behind. Once you stop learning, you start becoming as obsolete as the technologies you know how to support. That's motivation enough for me. Plus... I just enjoy the challenge.

The job is not as important as what you are doing in that job. When I was a systems admin, my primary job was end-user desktop support. However, I also assisted the network admin in doing router, firewall, and server administration. This enabled me to get the experience I needed to pursue my MCSE and CCNA. Without that real-world experience, I would NOT have been able to fully comprehend what I was reading.

So, I'll answer your question in this way: When I was a "real tech", I gained certifications that were relevant to the things I was starting to learn how to do in the "real world".

Obviously, my current situation is different, doing certification training. I can honestly say that I have never administered an Oracle server in the "real world". However, I got certified in it because I had to write training materials for the Oracle 9i exams. Would I be able to administer an Oracle server? Not as well as someone with Oracle experience... but better than someone with neither experience nor certifications. That said, I wouldn't expect to be able to land a job as an Oracle DBA based on my OCP certification alone.

Braindumps negatively affect the entire IT industry. They affect the braindumper, they affect those who study legitimately, they affect companies who are hiring, and they affect the certification programs themselves.

1) Using braindumps is cheating. It is no different than stealing a professor's final exam from his or her desk, and then studying to that specific exam. There is no justification for using them.

2) Every certification vendor has rules against using braindumps. The penalties for doing so are quite severe, including being decertified for life, which will put a *serious* dent in your career.

3) Braindumps enable you to become certified before you are truly ready to hold the certification. Sure, you can answer a bunch of questions and answers (mostly because you've SEEN them before!). But you won't have truly gained a real, solid, fundamental understanding of the concepts, and you won't be able to do the job in the real world. For those who say that they first gain a solid understanding of the concepts, but they want to check themselves by using braindumps before going into the real exam, I say this: if you TRULY have a solid understanding of the concepts, you don't NEED braindumps. If you have to rely on them, you are not ready.

4) Braindumps affect those who study the "right way". Imagine two guys, Dumper and Studier, who begin their certification training at the same time in order to get an IT job. Dumper decides to use braindumps because he wants to get certified quickly, and Studier decides to use study guides and do hands-on labs to gain a solid understanding of the concepts. Dumper gets certified quickly and gets an IT job before Studier does - after all, Dumper has a certification that Studier doesn't yet have. So Studier loses out on an opportunity that he (or someone else) might have had if Dumper hadn't cheated. You might ask, "So how does this affect the braindumper?" Here's how:

5) Braindumps affect companies who are hiring certified techs, and destroy the integrity of the certification programs themselves. Ok, so Dumper's got a job. But, as I explained in point number 3, Dumper will not likely have a solid understanding of the concepts to be able to do the job well in the "real world". After his employer finds out that Dumper can't do the job, Dumper will be fired, and the employer will say, "If that's what a certified individual can do, I won't hire another one based on certifications!" Thus, the integrity of the certification program is tainted, which causes our hard-earned certifications to lose value. If employers stop hiring on the basis of certification, certification will no longer be valuable to us. THIS is why employers hire on the basis of experience, not certification, folks.. This is why some certifications are not very respected by some hiring managers. Employers used to hire based on certification... but no longer. If certification were used the way it was intended to be used - not as an indicator that you WANT to do a job, but as an indicator that you can ALREADY do the job - then certification would hold much more value than it currently does in the IT field.

(c) Copyright 2007, Michael Aldridge. All rights reserved. This content may not be redistributed outside of CertForums without the express written consent of Michael Aldridge. Yep... there's a reason... <wink>