ADVENT COMPUTER TRAINING WARNING !!!!!

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Don't forget that technically Barclays have brought all this on people by pulling their business from Advent.
That's all very well for people who have paid through Barclays, but not so helpful for those who paid by other means.

 

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Not sure what you've read but Advent may have applied for some sort of bridging loan and been denied, if the business is insolvent thats Barclays right to refuse the loan.

Would you lend Advent money ?

 

Well, to be fair, why didn't you read the contract fully?

 

Actually, a large part of what's happened is the fact that Barclays would have funded a lot of Advent's students. Not many people can get their hands on £5k and so Barclays would lend it to them under certain conditions.

The students would then use the money to pay for their training.

Problem is, that when students decide they don't want to pay anymore it's Barclays that are left trying to recover the debt. There's not a lot you can do to recover an unsecured debt of that size due to the costs you incur by doing so. So Barclays take a loss, unless they've done a deal with Advent to recover bad debt from them. That makes it worse for Advent, becasue not only don't they have money coming in that they were expecting, money that they had is now flowing backwards.

The other catch is that Barclays keep a percentage of the money held back from Advent for a certain period in case, as has happened here, they have to pay an alternative provider to continue the training.

So, what with one thing and another, Barclays have just said 'sod this' and stopped funding students, which has effectively cut off practically all of Advent's income. They'll also be sitting on a couple of million quid which Advent would have been expecting, in order to sort out ongoing training for students.

Given that other banks are now extremely cautious about dishing out risky loans like this, there's not a lot that Advent can do other than go quickly down the tube - it doesn't even really give them chance to wrap things up gracefully.

The whole thing turns into a calamity so quicky that no one is going to want to bail them out.

So, in short, no, I won't be lending them any money...

 

Thats commission only!!! they don't sell they don't get paid,
i wonder how many of them get close to 25K a year... i expect not many
especially when they have to pay their own expenses, insurance etc

 

Perhaps at bad times like now, although back in the boom I know of sales people that were earning 50K+ selling training courses. Top earners were usually given cars to drive.
Being self employed meant the student could be buying a course from a different company to the one called!

 

Afternoon all,
This is my first post, so please be gentle.
I am/was studying for an MCSE with Advent but as yet have not passedany exams (narrowly missed A+ Essentials with 670).
Like everyone else I was very surprised about Advent going bust and I have also paid £5000 for the course and yes I was wondering if I'd get my money back. BUT I don't feel that I was "ripped off" and that Advent have been more than helpful with me.
Just to put things into perspective, I am 42, unemployed so it was a great chunk of money to lose, so I say to those "youngsters" out there moaning; at least you have the majority of your working life ahead of you, it's a lot harder fro me to find work than you.
Thank you for your patience in deciphering my ramble, yes I'm concerned but life goes on.

 

Fair point mate, and well made.

No one here can tell you what your chances of getting your money back are - it depends on lots of things, not least how you paid.

Someone who wasn't able to pass the A+ shouldn't be doing an MCSE, but that's how these things tend to work.

Talk to CAB in the first instance and see what they say.

Good luck.

 

Thanks for the advice, I shall get onto them (CAB). But I'm not giving up on my A+, I do think your commment a bit harsh. Apologies if I'm missing the point but I guess that's how Advent get people in.
Kind regards
Singe1642

 

sing1642, I thought that comment was a bit harsh too. You're right not to give up on the course. If you want to pass it badly enough then you will be able to do it. I'm in a similar situation as the first two parts of the course I'm doing aren't what I'm interested in, they're just stages I need to get through to get to the parts that interest me. I'm trying to remember all this info that I find boring, so it's hard to keep it all in my brain.

To anyone who paid via Barclays, I rang them today and they said they are trying to source other training companies and hope to have something in place by next week. They will be writing to everyone by the end of next week. So if you don't get a letter by next Friday, ring their customer services number and ask why.

 

I am not trying to kick you guys while you are down but Jonny is correct.

The MCSA and MCSE are not suitable for newcommers to IT, at best they could be attempted at the end of a two year apprenticeship, and even thats questionable.

The Zero to Hero aspect of these courses and the sales pitch is quite wrong.

While its not impossible to intensively train someone, thats not what most TP's do, they give very limited training and support. Therefore the assumption you will get to the MCSA or MCSE level is quite wrong, without the requisite experience you won't be able to understand and retain the material.

Also the salaries quoted on in the marketing of these courses are for skilled professionals with several years of experience not people who have spent a couple of hours with a book and a few lessons.

You should only enter IT if you have a passion for IT and are prepared to work extremely hard for it, people that go with TP's rarely seem to exercise the required intelligence, drive, determination and resourcefulness required to be successful. You can't put your career on somebody else, its down to you, if you do need tuition you need the right tuition, not some guy that happened to doorstep you.

 

I certainly agree with dmarsh, i was really interested in computing but on a home based level when i started the mcse, it is so so hard the way you were expected to learn, there was no hands on stuff to put what you read to the test! you can only do so much at home without all the complex and expensive networking gear etc.. I dont want to give up because i love computers i just think from what has happened i need to find either another way of continuing the course or try a different learning approach. either way the 5k seems to have gone down the drain so will see what CAB have to say 1st but it will only make my drive stronger.

Money is just paper, run out of it go make some more, have a brain use it

why worry in life!

 

Jonny is correct the A+ is two basic exams the MCSE is 6/7 pretty hard exams.

It quite clearly states on the Microsoft website that you should have 12-18 months experience as a systems engineer before attempting the MCSE.

Sales people wont tell you this because all they are interested in is your cash. Even if you pass the MCSE unless you have experience no IT manager/director in the right mind will hire an MCSE because they will be expected to hit the ground running with little or no training involved, apart from this is how you get to the server room and meeting and greeting collegues.

 

I agree with the others here, i was persuaded by Advent to do the MCSE with CCNA now looking back i've bitten off probably more than i can chew with those.

I did my CompTIA A+ in about 9 months (dragged my feet a little with all the reading) and was/now (who knows) doing an MCDST which has gotten harder, which has left me wondering perhaps the MCSA/MCSE and CCNA courses where a bad idea as its much more complicated stuff like designing and implementing MS Exchange. Considering i've never worked in IT and am only a factory worker its probably not a great idea to take this stuff on without experience.

What i feel i should have done now is as i've done got the CompTIA A+ and an MCDST then tried for an entry level position and worked my way up over a period of a couple/few years then attempted the MCSA or MCSE as my job required.

As for now, who knows would just prefer to get back my £6450 from advent/barclays whoevers got it and do courses myself and not use a TP, i've noticed there are some very knowledgable people here that could no doubt assist and point me in the right directions.

Matt

 

I am also here for the first time but would like to make just a couple of points. One of my sons has just lost his job with Advent. No warning. Neither he nor the other staff have been paid since before Christmas and don't expect to be. Advent put all the blame on Barclays and he believed them. Now, however, he is not so sure. However he went onto the internet and started applying for jobs imediately. He is starting work next week.
My other son went to University for three years and did an IT degree. He came out with over ten thousand pounds of debt due to student loans etc. A lot lower than some though. He wrote off for hundreds of jobs and eventually started with a a large corporation. His starting salary was about ten thousand per year and after seven years he has only recently reached the 40000 pound level. He has also recently finished paying off his debt. He loves his job, computers were his life even at school. He certainly didn't go into IT for the money but for job satisfaction.

 

I agree with what has been said, however, this is incorrect. There were practicals in the books, workshops and workshop books so there were hands-on parts to the training.

It amazes me how many people I have met who used Advent, paid all that money, yet didn't go to any of the workshops. So basically there paying over the odds to do self-study.

But yes i agree nobody should be doing the MCSE with out the relevant experience and i would also say no one should do a MCSA or above without a relevant job in IT as well.

 

Thats how to do it!! and there are plenty of other entry level certs in different aspects of IT if you wanted to continue with studies you don't have to stop at the MCDST.

 

Sorry guys.

Didn't mean to sound harsh - I wasn't having a pop at you guys, neither was I really having a pop at Advent, it's just the way things are/were.

It's like buying a course in formula 1 racing when you can't drive.
Fine, the salesman tells you they'll tech you to drive first, then you'll go on to do the formula 1 bit.

But what if you can't pass the driving test?
What if you start learning to drive and find you don't like it?
What if you pass your driving test and then realise that formula 1 isn't all it's cracked up to be?

The common sense thing would be to learn to drive first, pass your test then think about what to do next.

Now, you wouldn't have known this when you signed up, so you're not to blame.

Thing is, Advent didn't want to sell you an A+ to see how you got on.
They would have had to sell it for about £500 and no salesman is going to shift his BMW off the drive for 10% of that. They would also have to make sure that their training material and service were beyond question so that you'd go back to them for your next course. They would also have to hope that you didn't realise that all you had to do was read a couple of books then book yourself in for an exam.

So they have to flesh it up a bit so that they can wack a hefty enough price tag on it to justify getting out of bed in the morning. That's why you end up with A+, N+, MCDST, CCNA and MCSE to do. It's got absolutely nothing to do with career progression or good value, it's just an attempt to justify charging £5k.

Sorry.

 

To all those who have spent years getting their certificates, I apprecite what you're saying. BUT please stop treating us as imbeciles, this is what angers me. However I hope that as I progress, you won't mind me asking questions?
Yes I may have been taken in by the salesman but I was under NO illusion that it would be an easy ride to MCSE, the good thing about the course was that I had no time limit I only wish I didn't have to pay all up front. I do have a placement with a computer firm and have probably learned more than any book, and the last thing a mentor said to me was that the first exams are the hardest when your knowledge of IT is limited. I have been interested in working with computers for many years and this seemed the way in. I was not clouded by pound signs but I'll admit my naivety to what I was signing up for.

To the concerned mum, my sympathies go out to your sons, and I'm glad they've got jobs, I know what it's like to be told you've no job as happened last May.
Supernova, I agree with you and have found the workshop useful and the exercises in the book.
I hope I've not offended anyone, this was not my intention, I justwanted to clear the air.
With regards
Singe1642

 

Hi Mum.

Thanks for the update on how your kids are doing!

Just kidding.

I have made the point of a couple of threads where there has been a lot of self indulgant whinging going on that there are others suffering out there because of this.

Losing £5k is a bit of a pisser, but it isn't going to put your house at risk. Lets face it, you were resigned to spending that money anyway so hopefully you had budgeted for it (if not, there's no helping you). The people at Advent found themselves out of work and it only takes a couple of months of unemployment to be £5k down.

As we've seen here too, there has been an impact on the people who supply Advent with everything from books to toner cartridges. They're not going to see the money that they are owed, which could be a five-figure sum. It doesn't take much to equate that to a few jobs, if not their busness going under too.

In fact, the only people I don't feel sorry for are the sales people. OK, I'm sure they're not all bad, but by now they'll be selling hoovers to people with no floors and life will carry on as normal for them.