Will you still recommend CompTIA?

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by Sparky, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

    2,085
    29
    141
    Michael I respect your opinion but I think CompTIA just simply isn't that well known or valued across the pond from you. I don't know how well respected the CompTIA certs are over in the US but these changes are probably been made to appease the US market and not the rest of the world. I took the A+ and other CompTIA certs mainly to fill gaps in my knowledge and to bulk out my CV but I've only from the top of my head seen one job ask for a A+ cert in the UK and even then it wasn't essential to apply.

    I think in the UK this would be a good time for maybe the BCS to step in a offer an entry level cert that is geared towards our market as clearly CompTIA don't give a toss about their audience outside the US. When I say this I am going off the the story I read that these changes where made due to the US MOD requesting the changes.

    I don't have a problem with CompTIA making changes to their certs but do have an issue with these changes. CompTIA should introduce a date system to allow employers to see when you passed so say your a certified A+ 2010 etc. All I can see regardless of what CompTIA say that this is a money grabbing exercise. The blog I listened to made me laugh when they said they wouldn't make much off this change. They must think everyone is an idiot to believe that.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  2. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

    2,085
    29
    141
    lol just seen the CompTIA banner on Cert Forums that says

    "what does your A+ say about you, your hired"

    Should be changed to "what does your A+ say about you, we've kicked you in the balls" :tune
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  3. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

    1,460
    71
    107
    Especially when the wording says "have become certified" and not "are currently certified". Same thing at the moment but it'll still be true when they decertify all of us too stubborn/poor/apathetic to shell out more cash: we will still, at some point in the past, have become certified, whether we are currently certified or not.

    Anyway, after mulling this over for a while, and leaving aside the fact that I feel I've been shafted by CompTIA, I've come to several conclusions:

    1) If I don't have a job in IT after 3 years then I should probably stop trying. However, I do believe that any prospective employer is perfectly capable of assessing my continuing education by the simple task of reading my CV, so why I have to pay CompTIA for something that anyone in a position to hire should be able to work out without taking their shoes and socks off is beyond me.

    2) Once I have a job in IT and have a few months experience under my belt, these certs (A+ and N+) will be largely redundant; CV padding rather than useful additions.

    So, assuming I get a job in the next 18 months, nothing much has changed apart from the fact I'll have to remove these certs in a couple of years.
    Would I still recommend them?
    Maybe. It all depends on the individuals circumstances. I still think the A+ is an excellent foundation for a beginner and my points above show that it's 3 year lifetime shouldn't matter. However, in the UK at least, very few employers seem to know/value it. (Carphone Warehouse keep looking for people with a MS A+ :eek: ). Still, an A+ is better than nothing.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  4. Rob1234

    Rob1234 Megabyte Poster

    874
    76
    94
    I am shocked to read comments from so many people who use to tell every new member to do A+ and N+ first are now turning around saying no one knows them in the UK they are worthless etc. I would be annoyed if I listened to them back then and am listening to them now.
     
    Certifications: A few.
  5. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,174
    489
    374
    Then you haven't read what I posted. If you truly respect my opinion, then read what I said. Otherwise, you're arguing about things I've already addressed.

    CompTIA is a non-profit organization. Meaning, they can't just "money grab" for the sake of money grabbing.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  6. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,174
    489
    374
    Agreed. I understand WHY they're reacting as they are - they're mad at CompTIA for this change in policy and are lashing out in the only way they know how. But they're speaking with their hearts and not their heads. Their suggestion to others to abandon the A+ and Network+ is simply to "get back" at CompTIA... but doesn't do ANYTHING to help the new tech get hired. That, in my opinion, is irresponsible.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  7. dmarsh

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

    4,068
    409
    219
    I was never told to get an A+ to get into IT, I was told to get a HND, which is what I did, I then got an honours degree also.

    Was it irresponsible for people to tell me to get a HND and not an A+, no it wasn't.

    Like you said its your opinion, most likely based on your experience of the US market.

    Do I think CompTIA have anything to offer ? Yes I do, I think the A+ was their flagship product and had an excellent sylabus / curriculum. Is this the only way to study such a curriculum and test on it that employers will recognise in the UK ? No it is not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  8. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,174
    489
    374
    But dude... you're a programmer. The A+ doesn't apply to you. :rolleyes:

    The US job market doesn't have anything to do with my opinion on this matter. You're either not reading my previous posts (which discuss how the A+ might help someone in the UK job market) or you're deliberately ignoring them.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. dmarsh

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

    4,068
    409
    219
    You could also mention that the advice was given before the A+ existed ! Neither of this matters, I have worked in IT in the UK for 15 years, I have spoken to many employers and employees in all areas of IT. Trust me when I say the A+ certification is not a big deal to most of them in my experience.

    I do possess the skills of the A+, I'm pretty sure I could pass it if I wanted. The expectations of the jobs I've had have varied widely, from hooking up signal generators, setting up test networks, troubleshooting all sorts of equipment, even embedded equipment in power stations, developing PC based ATM equipment, who are you to presume what does and does not apply to me ?


    I know you think I'm deliberately baiting you, but really I do try to see your opinion, its just that its often the polar opposite of mine !

    The local market absolutely does have a bearing when you are talking about what will help people enter the market.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  10. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,749
    200
    246
    Are you kidding? any programmer worth his salt has all the hardware skills of an A+ guy and then some
    and i say worth his salt, i've met plenty that can't built their own systems for ****e, then again they couldnt program for ****e either

    All the great programmers I know say things like A+ are VERY important to developers


    I read all your posts, and your wrong to assume your years of experience in one market do not sway your opinion, even subconciously, the A+ has very LITTLE weight in the UK, incorrectly or not, its just how it is, the UK has many many more 'formal' academic routes to persue than the US, those tend to carry more weight with employers here

    dmarsh is correct in that, the skills from the A+ are VERY useful and important, but there are more than one way to aquire them in the UK, and some are more well known and respected than others
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  11. JK2447
    Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator

    Top Poster
    of the Month

    6,484
    679
    318
    Off topic but as a Jack-of-all trades type fella I agree that a Network/Wintel guy can greatly benefit from having a programming language under their belt and vice versa Programmer having Network/Wintel skills. We are linked at the end of the day and knowing a little (or a lot) about another guys role can help you communicate with other teams on a higher level. In meetings especially!

    I will recommend the Security+ still purely because the material is great and it still counts toward an elective on the MCSA/MCSE: Security. A+ and N+ I decline to comment upon as I have not studied for these so don't feel I can offer good advice either way. My 2 bob. Jim
     
    Certifications: VCP4, VCP5, VCP6, VCP6.5, VMConAWS Skill, BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VSP, VTSP
    WIP: VCAP 6.5 DCV (Design)
  12. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,174
    489
    374
    That's not the point. The point is that the A+ isn't gonna help a programmer to get a programming job. What's gonna help a programmer to get a programming job is the ability to program, and better yet, a portfolio of code.

    Like I said, if you read my posts, the A+ will give you an advantage, even if it is a small one. It is up to you as to whether to decide whether the advantage is worth the exam price.

    The A+ is just as respected today by employers as it was two weeks ago... yet NOW you guys are throwing out the "very little weight in the UK" argument, where most of you weren't two weeks ago. The only difference now is that the cert is no longer a lifetime cert. Okay, fine - I can understand if you were to say, "Get the cert, get the job, and let the cert lapse." That's a logical point, given your argument. But but the A+ is still just as valid as it ever was for the three years you've got it... which is when the A+ is gonna mean the most to your IT career.

    Yes, the skills are important in helping you DO the job. The certification is important in helping you GET the job. Certifications do help you to learn skills... but the point of certification isn't to help you learn skills... it's to show an employer who WON'T know your skills that you have skills. If the employer doesn't know what the A+ is, then it might not make a difference to them. But how would you know for sure what the employer knows and does not know?!? Just by the job advert?? Really?

    And, as I said before, yes, I agree that there are other ways into IT, and no, you don't HAVE to get certified. Have I not made that clear enough, Ryan? :blink Why rehash that argument as if I don't understand it?
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  13. dmarsh

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

    4,068
    409
    219
    Ok I'm going to try and make this the absolute last thing I say on the topic for obvious reasons.

    Totally agree on the point that my perspective will be skewed, however as said I've hung around with a lot of different people from all areas of IT. Your perspective is also skewed.

    Yes on ability to program, not really on a portfolio of code, many jobbing programmers will write 99% of their code for their employer, they will sign agreements never to take that code anywhere else, including interviews.

    Agreed, its important to be able to prove skills on paper in order to win interviews, an A+ is a very good way, but not the only way to do that.

    You are probably not going to believe me, but I've always thought that certifications including CompTIA certifications are not the 'be all and end all'. However I have enough arguments around here as it is ! Since the A+ has such an excellent curriculum and was low cost and had similar terms to other qualifications there seemed little point debating it.

    Well call me stupid but I have recently been getting CompTIA certs, largely because of the positive press they get here. I was even considering the A+ as it would be an easy way to show employers I'm an all rounder.

    People like Harry, who have massive amounts of experience were also working their way through them.

    Yes you are right this has been done to death, you seem to have a heavilly pro cert view and think people should cert on everything they can. I'm slightly more conservative on that, especially after this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  14. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,174
    489
    374
    No, you've made that point quite clear in the past. In fact, I've often wondered why a programmer with as negative a view about certifications as you have would hang around on a certification forum giving negative advice about certifications to non-programmers. :blink

    ...and still has similar terms to other qualifications; most of Microsoft's expire and all of Cisco's require recertification.

    The cost of the A+, at least for the first three years (the time that most people will get the most use out of the A+), is still the same.

    Then consider me surprised, as I would have advised that you don't need the A+, as it's not likely to help your career out. I haven't met many employers who wanted their code heads to be "all-rounders". Perhaps in this respect the UK is different.

    So... is the A+ worthwhile or not? Can't have both sides of the coin...

    Yes, I am pro certification, because I've seen how people have gotten certified and gotten jobs... including UK people on this very forum. I was pro certification even before I started at Transcender.

    No, I don't think people should cert on everything they can. Anyone who's been around for more than a month knows my viewpoint on that. Please, please, please, D, stop misrepresenting my viewpoints... okay? Please?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.