Why is it

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by greenbrucelee, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Personally, I don't mind noobs as a general term and, for something like Server 2003 I do consider myself to be just that.... a noob, because I know little about it; however, I wouldn't take kindly to someone actually calling me a noob. And I don't for one minute believe that GBL would ever attempt to offend in that way.

    I think the discussion around noob though is moving us away from the main discussion, which I thought was very well balanced...
     
  2. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    there isn't any negativity towards anyone. All I stated (again) was why do people not know, as soon as people go to a college or look on the net for any courses all the various qualifications can be seen and read about.

    I was never saying that someone with absolutely no experience and no experience of computer course should know what certs are appropriate.

    I agree GiddyG, he just looking for another argument that's all.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
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  3. Luddym

    Luddym Megabyte Poster

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    If that were the case, then you've just played into my hands. But it isn't, and I find that statement very telling.

    I hate the term noob GBL. I really hate it. I hate it when people call others it on games. I hate it when I get called it on forums. I hate it when it is used as a term against people who are complete begginers to a subject. Why? Because, as everyone has, I have been new to subjects, and find it extremely irritating and condescending when someone calls me a noob. Would it stop me from joining a forum if it was being used as a common way to describe people? (Other than those who openly use it in their nicknames.) Very possibly. I'm just trying to put myself in others shoes.

    The point is I really dislike the use of that word, but lets move on from it.

    GBL, the fact that we may have have heated discussions before is one thing, but openly suggesting I'm only here for an argument is bit far.
     
    Certifications: VCP,A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE
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  4. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    dude get a grip, wuptidoo someone calls you a noob, people called me a noob when I started playing COD4 wow wee. I think there are worse things people can call other people.

    Ever heard the phrase sticks & stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?

    Now lets get back what this was orinally about or just leave it alone.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
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  5. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Ok, there is a slight disagreement over the word ‘noob’.

    Lets move on guys, plenty of other things we could be posting about here. :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) MS-900 AZ-900 Security+ Network+ A+
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  6. Luddym

    Luddym Megabyte Poster

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    GBL, I don't know what to do. It feels like every time we get involved in a discussion, you take things the wrong way and then start thinking I'm attacking you.

    If that's what you think, it really isn't. Those are my opinions, and they always will be regardless of who they may disagree with. I'm not deliberating opposing you, it's just the sometmies it feels I have to reiterate because you deviate from any point I make and I'm not sure if you got me.

    If you'd prefer I not contribute to any thread you are on GBL, please let me know because I really am not trying to have an argument.
     
    Certifications: VCP,A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE
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  7. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I don't mind at all if you contribute to any post, it's free country isn't it?

    But saying things like I am being condisending and I am alienating people seems like an attack to me.

    Now like I said lets get back to topic or lets put this thread into the archives.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  8. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Come on you two... this was an excellent debate... let's get it back on track, just like Sparky said.
     
  9. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    I thought this post was dead, it seems that every man/woman/noob (only joking) and his dog is getting stessed!!

    The main argument.topic was about 'why is it?'

    Why is what?

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and that is where this forum is great. My only concern is that the big high posters seem to rule the roost. I have been a memebr here for over 3 years, but spend most of my time concentrating on my own life and future prospects, not posting every 5 minutes and stiring what is in the headlines at this present moment in time.

    I am going to attend TP anonymous

    ' I went with a TP and was successfull ' :cheers

    MrM
     
  10. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Just because someone posts a lot or is here everyday does not mean they have any rights over people who don't.

    And once again I say Well done I'm glad you 26k was well spent.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  11. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    That's total B@llocks!:dry they don't rule the roost as you put it! If anything they deserve respect for giving up their time to help people and keep people upto date with what's happening in IT!8)



    Well after reading some of your post recently, it's just as well you don't post so much. You be doing us all a favour! It's sarcastic comments like that, that we could all do without. because lets face it your not helping the CF community!:rolleyes:
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  12. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Actually Luddym it's you who has taken offence and go on the attack. GBL could of met you half way, but you seem to be determined to start an argument on anything GBL says!


    You could always put GBL on your ignore list (under your profile screen)and then you wouldn't see any posts/threads or his name on the forum. Seems a bit childish, but if it's upsetting you that much Lud. Then maybe you should do it!8)
     
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  13. panosd

    panosd Bit Poster

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    i have to admit, i hate the overuse (and plain wrong use) of the word 'noob' but when its used in the context of 'new user', which is its PROPER context I have nothing against it whatsoever. And thats all I'm going to say about that :)

    As far as the topic at hand, before I came to this website I had no idea that the higher qualifications were for people that already had a year or so of experience. I DID go to the Microsoft website and I got totally confused which is why I kept searching.

    There IS a lot of information out there and it gets a bit overwhelming if you haven't already been in the industry for a while and know some of the info beforehand. I like to research stuff a bit before I shoot my mouth of and on this occaision I still wasn't about to come away fully informed or even partway there. All I knew was that the MSCE was about a thousand times harder than I first thought.

    And yes, I think part of it has to do with the fact that most qualifications that involve some sort of certification are for BEFORE you do the work in question. As in 'right, you have the certification, now you can start applying for the jobs it applies to'. I would've never DREAMED that I could be a network administrator without my MSCE for example. If that sounds painfully naive, well, thats just the general impression I had.
     
  14. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    This thread got long fast and initially I decided just to avoid it, which obviously was a mistake on my part.

    I don't mind a spirited conversation and I don't mind discussions on potentially touchy subjects. I do mind when people start taking swings (metaphorically speaking) at each other. Once conflict becomes personalized, a thread becomes out of control. It started to get that way on page 4, but pulled back, then started falling apart again on page 7.

    I've considered making a number of comments in response to various points, but that feels too much like adding fuel to the fire.

    Since I was brought up at one point, I do feel it necessary to respond to that particular issue. Mr Machfisto, I didn't offer my thanks to those people who have purchased my books as a form of advertising. I did so to say "thank you" to those people who honestly felt that my work would help them succeed in pursuing their goals. When you're an author, once you send the book out the door, so to speak, you never know directly how people are receiving it. You only find out, either through the publisher or, in my case, my agent, if sales are good or not. The royalty cheques that arrive also indicate that the books are doing well.

    The reason I mention my books at all (Ok, I'm human, I like to crow every now and then), is to offer forum members an "inside peek". I've been on other forums where published authors were present and discussed their books, and it was a real treat to have the opportunity to talk with them and find out how the books we depend upon for our education are created. The feedback I usually receive is that people are interested when I discuss my publications. At no time, have I ever intended to lord it over anyone or cause offense. I'm sorry if I gave any other impression. Mr Machfisto, if you or anyone has any questions about the integrity of what I post, you can PM me to discuss it or, if you feel I've "crossed the line", please report the post to AJ or Si. I'm fine with that.

    As for being a "high poster", if you'll take a look at my join date and then discover when CF first went online, you'll find out that I joined when this place was about a week old. I've had plenty of time to build up a post count and believe me, I never tried to be a "top poster". I'm actually a little embarrassed that my post count is so high (of course, Michael will blow me away in a few weeks and that'll be that). :tongue

    I really don't want to have to lock this thread. Locking a thread usually means the participants (even if it's just one or two or such) aren't able to keep the conversation within the bounds of the forum Rules and Guidelines. CertForums is one of the most civil and supportive certification forums on the Internet (and I've sampled plenty over the years, so I should know). A number of CF staff have been discussing this thread in the Mods forums and some concerns were raised about a potential "flame war". I almost never hear the term "flame war" associated with CF, so it was a surprise to see it mentioned.

    While a discussion about how people become interested in a career in IT in the first place is interesting, including how people first learning about a potential IT career can be misinformed or occasionally naive, taking shots at each other over the matter isn't helpful in the least. Those of you who don't want to argue, don't. There's no law that says you *must* respond to this thread. If it bugs you, ignore it. Don't feel like you have to take the other person down a peg, just because you can.

    If you feel you need to respond to a point, take some time to write out your response and then re-read it before clicking "Submit Reply". Make sure that you *really* want to say what you are about to post in the tone you're imparting. Feel free to edit yourself. Think about how you'll sound to others and consider whether or not your comments really contribute productively to the thread.

    If this thread can continue without personal attacks, fine and dandy. I'm rather hoping it'll die down, but who knows. If the personal attacks continue, then I or another staff member will lock this thread.

    I hope this has clarified matters. Thanks.

    -Trip
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  15. BosonMichael
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    Noobs. :twisted:

    Sorry, couldn't resist. :p

    (Note: This is not an attack... this is a jooooooke) :D
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  16. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Isn't that a bit of a catch 22?? after all how can you get experience in a job unless you have a cert to prove to a prospective employer that you do have the skills and determination to do the job your apply for in the first place?


    Like I said earlier mis-information and too much information out there it's no wonder the question is asked so much. Also I seem to remember when I first joined I was a complete noob in not only IT but also using a forum and how forum and vb bullitin works:biggrin

    As for big pay packets - again it comes back to false advertising by TP's.:( Not all of training providers are bad, but it is difficult to find the good ones out there. The Majority take you for a ride and leave you in Debt. Most of their sales man haven't a clue what the Certs mean!:rolleyes:


    So you already had some experience or knowledge in IT and therefore can't really put yourself in the same boat as the people who do ask those questions about these certs?:blink


    I guess we could ask the staff here on CF if we could or (they could) draw up a flow diagram?

    One that includes Starting in IT with various arrows to A+ N+ Microsoft certs, CCNA and CIW certs? Maybe even stress the time it takes to be a CCNA??

    I don't know......:blink I have often thought of doing one of these diagrams and asking the staff to pin it in the revelant place of the forum. I must admit I feel quite lost by those numbers given for the Microsoft certs.

    Q) What do you think?? - a question to the staff and anyone reading this thread?8)
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  17. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    That's OK! according to Mr Machfisto "you rule the roost" and therefore can say anything you like just so you can increase your post count! LOL:p:biggrin

    BTW congratulation on getting over the 10K MARK That's quite an achievement in the short space of time you have been a member here:rocks
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  18. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    THat could be a good idea.

    But I am starting to sway to the idea that maybe there is too much info out there and some of it will be wrong. But like I said earlier if I was going to do a Microsoft course or learn about something Microsoft I would look on the Microsoft site to get definitive information about it.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
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  19. Davidus

    Davidus Nibble Poster

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    Aha - but that would imply that you had done your research and at least have an inkling of which cert you wanted to do.

    Alas, me (and I can only guess many others) are not that fortunate and have browsed microsoft's site with a view to seeing what cert goes with which career path etc etc etc only to findit confusing somewhat....and yes, that only due to my own ignorance and lack of understanding of the matter.

    After looking around (this site included) I am slowing wising up on what is what, and yes, surprise, surprise (eh, where's Cilla??) I am beginning to understand the site better.

    I agree with others, in theory, having some sort of information for (dare I say it) noobs (oh dear!!) in whatever shape or form is an excellent idea and I for one would welcome that. BUT, I can also see the other side where such a post/thread call it what you will, would be quite a headache to do.

    Where we go from here - I really dont know. I'm gonna just keep watching this (rather exicitng) thread and see what else is said.

    Davidus
     
    Certifications: EDCL (don't laugh)
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  20. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

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    I agree that there is absolutely loads of info out there, and some of it will be factually incorrect. It's a hard choice when you're someone wanting to start out in IT, with no idea on certs, what you're likely to earn and so forth.

    MS is a good site, if you know what you're looking for; however, it's a minefield if you don't. Let's face it, a few of us sometimes struggle even when we're looking to see what MS upgrade exams we need...

    What there needs to be, and there isn't, is somewhere that people can go to to see exactly what they need in order to follow a particular choice/option... all in one place. This includes vendor, and non-vendor specific certification structures, information on likely job pay rates, and info on TPs.

    OK, we have something like that on CF, based on people's personal experiences a lot of the time, some good, some bad... but there isn't a formal/official place people can go for definitive factual information.

    There probably never will be, which is why somewhere like CF has to help those new people coming along. The fact that there are opposing views is good, as that lets people see that there are different routes.

    Let's not stop disagreeing, but let's do it with respect for each other... we all have a valid opinion and the really good thing about CF is that we are able to express it.
     

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