Why is it

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by greenbrucelee, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    If I do get the payrise, I will be stashing the cash away. So that I can afford to move away and take a big paycut.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  2. Gingerdave

    Gingerdave Megabyte Poster

    990
    44
    74
    After reading through all of this, I had a thought: People always ask about the high level certs, in part to do with Ambition. How many people after they find out a bit go, "I would really like to sit on this help desk answering calls from irrate customers all day instead of working my way up and being a network admin"

    Some people, myself included have an idea where the "end" destination is but little idea of the steps to get there, so they ask here, or go to Training providers.

    The other thing is people, like water, generally follow the path of least resistance, therefore if they can find someone who will tell them what they need they will do that as opposed to being confused by the M$/Cisco cert sites.
     
    Certifications: A+,MCP, MCDST, VCP5 /VCP-DV 5, MCTS AD+ Net Inf 2008, MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  3. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    Taking a step at at a time is good, but when some place sells you something like A+, N+,MCDST, MCSA and MCSE and then says do this you don't need experience that is what I have a problem with.

    If a company said do all these certs but after the MCDST we will get you a job or placement where you will gain the experience required. Then I would have no problem at all.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  4. Gingerdave

    Gingerdave Megabyte Poster

    990
    44
    74
    I thought that was how they worked, atleast advent do, they try to get you into a job after you finish your A+, so by the time to you hit MCSA they want you to have another one before the MCSE.

    As to how much success they have with this I cant atest as I am in a job where I have room to grow into full server admin, so I am not using it, but the option is there.
     
    Certifications: A+,MCP, MCDST, VCP5 /VCP-DV 5, MCTS AD+ Net Inf 2008, MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  5. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    Most TPs come out with we will get you or job or work experience but they also come out with the you do not live in the correct geographical are bit too.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  6. Gingerdave

    Gingerdave Megabyte Poster

    990
    44
    74
    Ah right I see, I wasn't aware of that little proviso.

    However as we are all aware there are not IT jobs of the correct level available in all areas.
     
    Certifications: A+,MCP, MCDST, VCP5 /VCP-DV 5, MCTS AD+ Net Inf 2008, MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  7. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    Its in the small print on their terms and conditions. Another weird one is, there were two people on here a while back doing the same courses with the same TP and they were getting charged two different prices.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  8. Gingerdave

    Gingerdave Megabyte Poster

    990
    44
    74
    That's odd, I believe I am being charged a different price as to most of the people I did my last session with, however I did start the course a long while ago. Dont see prices going down some how...
     
    Certifications: A+,MCP, MCDST, VCP5 /VCP-DV 5, MCTS AD+ Net Inf 2008, MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  9. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

    4,140
    58
    214
    Could it be that there is too much information? That people who decide to go into IT feel lost and over welmed by the amount of cert's there are?
    :blink

    I don't think TP's really help people starting out in IT because they want to get as much money out of you as possible. I only wanted to do MCDST with CT but their sales man told me I would not get a job with MCDST and then lead me believe that MCSE is the way to go!

    Newbies in IT - It's not their fault if they don't know what cert to do, that's why a lot of people surf certforums and ask those questions. they know they are more likely to get a true account from the members here on CF then if they were to ask the same question to a TP or see it on TV!8)
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  10. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    There's a reason the salesman comes around to your house, and it isn't to talk nice and make you feel at ease. It's to gague how much they can realistically charge you.

    I know with complete noobs it's not their fault but most people who join here have been on computer courses and have had a taste of getting qualifications or enquired about them. The information is all over the place.

    So maybe your right maybe there is too much info.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  11. Davidus

    Davidus Nibble Poster

    69
    5
    22
    I would agree with that - just have to go to microsoft's own web site and then to look at the certs available - it certainly made my head spin.

    Exams are identified by numbers, ok thats fine, but with so many, and as a newbie, I got soooo confussed, I gave up (well, that night I did).

    Perhaps a bit of clarity on microsofts website is needed, or somewhere that newbies can go and say Ahhh! so thats what thats for (and maybe at the same time tell them that experience matters). I suppose that could be done here, but I imagine that would be quite a large post, and not everyone would take the time to read it. Just a thought though.
     
    Certifications: EDCL (don't laugh)
    WIP: 70-536, Comptia A+
  12. Luddym

    Luddym Megabyte Poster

    797
    19
    74
    Hold on a second GBL. I'm not sure if you mean to but that sounds very condescending.

    Blanketing people with the term 'noob' isn't a very nice thing to do, especially when in a lot of ways even people who know what the qualifications mean still know nothing about the actual content. Does that make someone who knows that an MCSE is a high end cert, but hasn't got any exams towards one... an MCSE noob?
     
    Certifications: VCP,A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: Christmas Drunkard
  13. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    no, I am meaning someone who has used a computer before (i.e for surfing and typing a letter) but wouldn't know the difference between memory and storage space.

    Anyway since when is calling a beginner a noob rude?
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  14. Luddym

    Luddym Megabyte Poster

    797
    19
    74

    Well noob, isn't that the problem.

    Before you get angry, the point I'm making is that anyone can call anyone else a noob. You say don't know what power supply to use, you're a noob. You can't install a harddisk, you're a noob. I just find it frustrating when people call others noobs in this sense, because it just comes across as a derogotory expression. It suggests, in some senses, that you are above them.
     
    Certifications: VCP,A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: Christmas Drunkard
  15. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    ok maybe I should have said inexperience person/people. A noob is someone who is new, so someone who new to computers or anything else is a noob i.e a beginner/inexperienced person.

    I am not above anyone and have never claimed to be.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  16. Luddym

    Luddym Megabyte Poster

    797
    19
    74
    GBL, not having a dig, just saying what I percieve, others will of course see it differently.

    I just don't think it's good if someone new to IT stumbles here, see's that 'noobs' aren't talked of fondly when they ask 'noobish' questions that they could search for anyway.

    Even when, a very begginer probably finds it a daunting task knowing that they know nothing, yet are willing to try and ask someone for their very first step on the IT ladder, which may even just be...'Try a quick search for Comptia, a look for the A+.'

    Of course, just this link could lead to a whole life in IT, something that wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for their 1st post, which they may not have made if they'd spotted the negative postings about them. Remember, we were all there once.
     
    Certifications: VCP,A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: Christmas Drunkard
  17. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    Dude, if I hadn't shown people or helped people in the right direction in my time on CF I don't think I would have been awarded the members award twice.

    All I was asking originally that why do people not know, now maybe it's me but if I was looking at anything to do with Microsoft I would visit the Microsoft website.

    When I was at college in 94 there was a hell of lot of info floating about on notice boards etc about the MCSE in NT and MCSA, and all of the notices etc started with For IT professionals the new MCSE NT (i think it was 3.51). The MCSE is for professional who administer NT servers blah blah blah. The speel hasn't changed since then.

    But because of dumps and people going with TPs who are only interested in getting money the certs are being devalued and even people who has never replaced a mouse before are going for them.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  18. Luddym

    Luddym Megabyte Poster

    797
    19
    74
    Right....... and what has that got to do with it? Seriously, what does that have to do with the possibility of alienating 'noobs'?
     
    Certifications: VCP,A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: Christmas Drunkard
  19. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,292
    265
    329
    since when am I alienating anyone?

    I merley stated that certs like the MCSE are being devalued by TPs etc so inexperienced people are going for them as they don't know any better.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  20. Luddym

    Luddym Megabyte Poster

    797
    19
    74
    You don't like TP's, I get it. But how you came to having a dig at BD's and TP's when I was talking about 'noobs' probably not feeling comfortable joiing/contributing when there is negativity like this towards them, I don't get. You cannot tar every 'noob' with the same brush, and expect them to have seen the TP's false advertising and want '£35,000 a year' in their first role.

    I'm not even going to carry on GBL because I don't want to get into a 'BD and TP's' are bad discussion, which is what this is turning into.
     
    Certifications: VCP,A+, N+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: Christmas Drunkard

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.