What would you do over hear someone cheat?

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But isn't that why workplaces should have a probationary period, or introduce annual or 6 month performance appraisals? These are processes put in place to measure an employee's overall ability to carry out the role given to them... It should be this kind of system that resolves a problem or determines someones outcome

We have these people at my work too... They know nothing. They are incompetent, and some even in managerial roles, which were spon fed to them, and have absolutly no people-skills whatsoever. I wouldn't risk my reputation of being someone trustworthy, and 100% communal with employees by running off to "report" people, because I have confidence that these measures put in place should work effectivly enough without the use of "reporting"!!

Why don't other people help to guide and train him a bit better ti understand the job fully? & instead of jepordising a man and his kids lifes, why not go straight to the director, or HR department and question the recruitment concerns? Just a thought - that way it isn't "grassing" and is simply an argument against a recruitinment process that may have faults in it!!!

 

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Playing Devils Advicate for 1 second here....

What if... this individual had no children and spent his time boozing and partying and used the brain dumps as an easy way of getting certified...?

While I totally agree about the butterfly effect and the subsequent knock on effects your actions may cause.

Why should someone who took the easy way so he can go out enjoying himself and in the end becomes a burden on my workplace.. be my responsibility to train on things he should have allready be trained on during his "learning periods"!

But yes totally agree about recruitment process's having flaws in them!

 

I must apologise for my postings today which I made because I became too emotional.

All have been edited accordingly.

 

Thanks, postman. It takes a big man to admit when he's been wrong (and I've been wrong more than once, so I should know). Cheers.

-Trip

 

Hades discrimination is about right.

Mum I need new laptop next day he got a new laptop, Maybe I jealous it good to never have to work for anything just given on a plate.

So I think everyone should use dumps and make the MCSE worthless.

And this not the point of having hand in the air shouting sir sir. This fnck got the same certification now as me.

 

So *that's* what this is all about? Are you actually serious in your statements (they're kind of difficult to understand...I had to read your sentences a few times to make sure I had the meaning correct)?

Just because someone else cheats, doesn't mean that, in a fit of pique, we all should, just to shaft the value of certifications. What about personal integrity. The bottom line isn't the destination, but how you get there. A fake MCSE will be exposed in short order where as one achieved honestly, will be the basis (potentially) for a long and successful IT career. Each of us has to ask ourselves which one we'd like to live out. Hopefully, the answer is obvious.

 

Spot on trip.

Repd

 

Actually, Ence let me know he was being sarcastic in his remarks. Unfortunately, in a print-only world, that isn't always apparent.

Nothing more to see here, folks. Move along...move along.

 

That's the exact sort of mindset that's caused our certifications to become devalued right before our very eyes. Doing nothing simply causes the problem to get worse. Guy gets cert, company hires guy, company fires guy, company decides that certification isn't worth a crap. And as a result, our certifications become more and more and more worthless.

We can help fix that. Or we can stand idly by and do nothing.

 

Once you start working in IT, your opinion will likely change, particularly if you end up working with some certified moron who doesn't know what he/she's doing.

 

Cheating is cheating. Circumstances don't allow someone the right to cheat.

So by your standards, if someone is poor, but is a warm individual, it's OK for him to shoplift? Or if someone doesn't have transportation to get to his work in order to feed his kids, it's OK for him to steal a car? Or just because someone gives to charity, it's OK for someone to cheat on their taxes?

There's absolutely no justification for it. If you want to make money, make money legitimately. If you want to acquire something, acquire something legitimately. And if you want to get certified, get certified legitimately. Or don't get certified.

Yes, you do condone cheating. You may not think you do, but you do; you provided many justifications and rationalizations for cheating, above.

So, by your standards, we shouldn't ever report anyone about anything, because they might be having struggles or "innocent kids"? Please. Wrong is wrong is wrong. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Or, in this case, don't cheat if you don't want to be found out and have to suffer the consequences of your actions.

Careful... I may be just a member on this forum, but I don't appreciate that sorta talk around here... particularly when it's directed towards the more-than-10 of us who, in your opinion, are those "depraved, un-social <blank>ers."

 

I find it rather wierd when people start calling other people names and making threats behind their keyboards when they don't agree with someone who has higher morals/integrity or a different opinion than them. They probably wouldn't do it in a face to face meeting but like I said before there is a difference between someone who cheats to get ahead of someone who hasn't and someone who does some sort of misdemeanor.

 

It's always good to have moral standards, and how we all behave in society, but even if I did work in the IT industry, I wouldn't grass someone up. Not my job, and quite frankly not within my interests to put my reputation on the line.

I've worked in supply chain, procurement, quality audit departments, and all various kinds of working environments including the very bottom manufacturing line, and believe me - no one fully co-oporates with grasses in any of them, and no one puts full working efforts alongside them either, and if I were to work in an IT department, I'd rather have the support, and 'trust' from my team, and benefit of being able to rely on them fully, rather than having the majority of them be distant from me in conversations, and socialising to build on both friendships and working relations which both help to achieve great team working. Now at my workplace we have those who would gladly sit and "report" people for being late a number of occasions, or if they make silly mistakes, or for any other problems, but they never get any respect from their teams, they never get any support 100%, and it makes the team loose it's strength.. I put trust in the apprasial "system" to point out these errors in people though, and not have individual people run to do the talking for a system put in place.
I would be annoyed if someone got certified fairly easy, when I had trained very hard to pass, but in the end I know that I'd be more skilled and knowledged, and that one day these people would be out in their ear very soon anyway, and pray the whole time that they do get found out. I guess the people who mind their own business are the people we can all share thoughts with, and trust enough to work alongside 100%... As someone else previously said there are those with different moral structures. Some will find it easy to grass people up. Then there are those of us, which would never dream of grassing full stop, then there's people who may only grass on certain circumstances, everyone is different

 

Perhaps a standard induction test before being hired - Same with Uk driving to enable the instructer to see your skills after the "Theory" multiple choice question, you get a "hands-on" examination..

Not something as long as this, but some computer and demonstrations in front of the recruiter in IT would be helpful to see the level of skill in the individual applying for the position

 

...and on the flip side, I trust that you haven't cheated. If you have, you deserve to be exposed. If you've cheated, you're damaging the trust of the team. Or don't you see that?

Again, work with a cheater who you cannot rely on, and have to clean up after because they don't understand what they're doing, and you'll change your tune.

No harm, no foul, mate... you simply don't know what you're talking about because you haven't been in IT. I have yet to meet ONE person in IT who was OK with working with a slacker who doesn't know what he/she's doing.

And in IT, NOT reporting crap like that makes the team lose (not loose) its strength. In fact, we tend to be ALL about the team, not about the individual. If the individual is hurting the team, then the team shouldn't be made to suffer.

If there's no knowledge that anything bad's going on, what's the "appraisal" going to do? If I'm constantly hiding another tech's shortcomings by covering for him and cleaning up after him, how's management going to know to ask him to improve? Well, they won't, unless I either "grass him out", as you like to put it, or stop cleaning up after him, which hurts the company because work doesn't get done right. Ultimately, if the department looks bad, the IT manager comes down on ALL of us for something that the slacker did or didn't do. Uh-uh, I ain't havin' that.

Yep... you'll increase that feeling tenfold when you start working with one of them.

I guess you seem to think that nobody communicates with me, then, huh? Or can work well with me? Or can tell me things? Sorry, mate... you're misguided on this. With rare exceptions, my co-workers seem to like me, and I have yet to be fired from a job in my 23 years of working. Those co-workers who don't like me tend to be those slackers who, to be incredibly blunt, I and the rest of the team don't want to work with anyway. Those who do like me tend to be people of honesty and integrity.

Hey, it's your choice who you work with and hang around. I'll choose the ones who work honestly, thank you very much.

 

Welcome to the ideal, but unrealistic, world of what should happen, but won't. Some companies do; most do not. Some managers are just as lazy as the cheaters.

Unfortunately, even with interviews, and hands-on practical evaluations, and even in the workplace, some cheaters *aren't* busted. Eventually, some DO get hired, and sometimes, they DON'T get fired. Know why? Because of people who do nothing about the problem.

Good luck, when you make it into IT. I hope you don't ever have to find out what it's like to work with a cheater... but odds are pretty high that you will.

 

You made some good valid points in the 2nd last thread, and can see where you're coming from. I don't however fully agree, but do with some of the points made