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Was Laid Off My First IT Job!

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Professor-Falken, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. Professor-Falken

    Professor-Falken Kilobyte Poster

    Hey everybody was laid off my first IT job and I am writing to get some advice. The company I was working for told me that they decided after working for them for 2 months that they wanted to hire someone with more experience. That really hurt because it was my first full time IT job and I felt like I was really beginning to grow
    in experience. What suggestions does anyone have as to what I should be looking for next.
    I was working as a computer technician doing service calls to homes and business I was working on POS PCs.
    Linksys Wireless Routers and PDAs, I was replacing motherboards, I was getting experience but then they called me and told me they wanted someone with more experience. The good news is they said they would give me a good reference. I guess my biggest question is should I list them on my resume? They said they would give me a good reference. Also the experience that I list on my resume would be some great keywords that would probably get me more calls. Does anyone have any good advice I am feeling a little discouraged please let me know.

    Professor Falken
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia Network +
  2. JohnBradbury

    JohnBradbury Kilobyte Poster

    I have no legal training but it seems to me that their actions are against UK employment law. Assuming you haven’t given them a valid reason to sack you then they can only get rid of you by making you redundant. To make you redundant they have to show that the role is no longer needed and therefore cannot hire someone else to do the job once you're gone.

    I suggest you seek legal advice.
  3. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

    Falken isnt in the UK as I recall. However, for the first few months in the UK, you are on probation, and they can sack you if they wish. They dont need to make you redundant at all, they just say that they dont want to employ you any more. There are a few legal issues still, but far less than once you complete your probation.

    As for the US, forget it. As I understand, Employment law in the US is geared to the benefit of the employer, meaning that they can pretty much sack you on the spot, without notice, just for breathing wrong.
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  4. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Premium Member

    Same rule applies here in canada, the first three months you are on probation, basically they decide whether they want to keep you or not. After the three months they have to have a good reason to fire. My recommendation would be for you to update your cv with the new experience and start sending out a lot of cv's to other companies. I am sure that you will be able to land an interview or two if you keep at it. Also continue your studies with the network+ certification to gain more knowledge.

    Good luck.
    Certifications: A+ | CCA | CCAA | Network+ | MCDST | MCSA | MCP (270, 271, 272, 290, 291) | MCTS (70-662, 70-663) | MCITP:EMA | VCA-DCV/Cloud/WM | VTSP | VCP5-DT | VCP5-DCV
  5. Professor-Falken

    Professor-Falken Kilobyte Poster

    How about my question about being putting them in my resume. What do you think if they have told me they would give me a good reference do you think I should include them in my resume. Should I also include the temp assignement I did with an IT temp agency.

    Professor - Falken
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia Network +
  6. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    You see, I think that's what is wrong with modern society.
    Always looking backwards, always full of spite.
    Sacked? Seek legal advice, don't dwell on what you may have done wrong or the skills you might be lacking, go for the easy solution.

    Trip on a loose paving slab?
    Don't watch your feet next time - sue the council.
    It was their fault you tripped, right?
    Then the council has even less money to fix broken pavements...

    Look forward, not back.
    You've got an IT job under your belt.
    List it on your CV, get a reference off them and keep studying!

    Good luck.

    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  7. Professor-Falken

    Professor-Falken Kilobyte Poster

    Thanks for the advice especially about whether not to put them on my resume, this decision was critical to me.
    Thanks again

    P.S. You have the same name as me what is up with that.

    Professor Falken - Yes I took the name from "Wargames" the movie.
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia Network +
  8. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    I used to work in HR.

    Experience on your CV is always good, but be wary if you have skipped from job to job as it may look like you have problems settling down, or B.O.

    On the other hand, big employment gaps are best avoided too.

    If you have worked for an agency and been moved around a lot, list it under the agency rather than the individual employers and focus on what you gained/contributed from your various placements.
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  9. drum_dude

    drum_dude Gigabyte Poster

    Dunno about you but there is quite a difference between the two - one is Professor Falken and the other is Theprof...totally unrelated! :blink
    Certifications: MCSA , N+, A+ ,ITIL V2, MCTS
    WIP: MCITP 2008 Ent Admin, Server Admin, Exchange 2010, Lync 2010, CCNA & VCP5
  10. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    Good post Johnny. We don't agree often, but you're right on the money with this advice, at least as far I'm concerned. The US is another sue-happy society and it's just nuts. Nobody will tell anyone the truth anymore and it's all because everybody wants to sue everybody else.

    I mean, in the long run, what good does it really do to sue somebody who doesn't want you? They are going to make your life miserable in the long run. You're also guaranteeing that when you leave no one will ever say a good thing about you, i.e. burning your bridges. And for what? So that next time the guy who wanted to get rid of you wants to get rid of someone else he will know how to lie better? That's all it accomplishes. It just makes truth harder to get at. Makes it so any employer becomes afraid to tell someone the truth about them needing more skills, needing to improve themselves, etc....

    Becoming a litigious society, like all other short-sighted ways of doing things, ends up screwing society up more in the long run than it was to start with.
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  11. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    Yes. Put them on your CV. If they said they'd give you a good reference, they probably will.

    The one burning question I'd ask them is "more experience in what?" That is, what would have made you a "keeper" in their eyes? Where did they see that your skill sets were lacking? Once you have that information, you might want to focus on practicing those skills. They are probably something you could practice in a home lab situation so that at your next IT job (and there will be a next one), you'll already be a leg up on the game.

    Oh...and in the US, you can be let go without cause. You can try to challenge it, but unless they somehow violated your civil rights or something, they have the right to let you go just because they can. You can stew in it for awhile if you need to but once you're done, let it go and move forward. Keep in mind that you *did* get valuable experience with this employer while you were with them and that is as good as gold on your CV.

    If anyone asks why you were let go, you can just say that although they were great to work for and they thought well of you, it just wasn't a good fit of their needs and your background.
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  12. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

    I'd say yes too, put them as reference on your CV and start firing away at other openings. I was actually is a similar situation with my first IT job as I was fired reason being I was not experienced enough. I was really heart broken:( but then picked up myself and have not looked back since.

    The situation you're in does occur in life so don't beat yourself about it as you know you're a hard worker and probably didn't deserve working a company like that. In a lot of situations it is just a reason to fire you and not necessarily because you weren't experienced enough.

    The real reason might be financial or role is not really needed so don't let it get to you just look on and keep your head high, obviously not in arrogance:) cheerio and best wishes for the future.
    Certifications: MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003 Messaging, MCP, HNC BIT, ITIL Fdn V3, SDI Fdn, VCP 4 & VCP 5
    WIP: MCTS:70-236, PowerShell
  13. allblack

    allblack Bit Poster

    A old friend sud his employer for some thing like that and got some money out of it! cool! but the money soon run out and he could't get a new job cos the employer know any one and every one in the field of job...

    Put them on your CV and why not ring them up and see if they can send you a good reference to you so you can see what they have to say about you then add it to your CV! It won't hurt to try and as the old saying go's if you dont ask you dont get.
    Certifications: in IT none
    WIP: A+, N+, MCDST
  14. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    If you were in your probation period then the employer has every right to terminate your contract unfortunately!

    Plenty of positives to take from the situation though, you now have experience to put on your CV and you also have a good reference as well. 8)
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Office 365, Server 2016, CEH
  15. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    Yes put them on your CV, and also call them to see if you can get a written reference of them or at least full contact details so a prospective employer can call them to get information on you.
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  16. Finkenstein

    Finkenstein Kilobyte Poster

    That's unfortunate that you were laid off, however don't let it discourage you. It can happen. I would definitely list them, and if someone asks you why you aren't with them, I'd say that they did a number of lay offs, even for "cost cutting reasons". Even if a prospective employer calls an old company for reference, all the old employer can say is pretty much "Yes, they worked for me or no, he didn't". They can't legally say "So-and-so was a horrible employee." (At least in the US). Many will say positive things since I can't see anyone threatening lawsuit because of a compliment. :)

    Hang in there and good luck!
    Certifications: MCP, Network+, CCENT, ITIL v3
    WIP: 640-822
  17. JohnBradbury

    JohnBradbury Kilobyte Poster

    That's strange because I don't recall suggesting that anyone should go around filing civil cases for no good reason. Nor did I suggest that I'm the type of person who would do so. In fact you'd probably be hard pressed to find someone who agrees with your sentiments more than me. However, I think protecting your legal rights as an employee is a million miles away from anything you've outlined in your post.

    Of course he should move on and look for new opportunities. However if he was unfairly treated then he should ensure the employer is held to account. Otherwise they'll continue to do this to other people. It isn't about money, it's about fair treatment in the work place.

    In response to the initial question I would go ahead and put this on your CV. That little bit of experience might make all the difference to the hiring manager when you next interview.
  18. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

    That is pretty much spot on as far as I'm concerned. There are many. many good things about the US - their employment laws are not amongst them. That said, it isn't much better in the UK either - there is no such thing as employee rights any more really (unless you happen to check one or more of the 'positive discrimination' boxes and work for the government). In private enterprise here employment law is almost universally designed to protect employers, not their staff.

    All that said, I can't tell you how many times I've worked with people who I wish WOULD be sacked as they were/are shite at their job. It seems that its pretty much impossible to strike anything like a happy medium - either you're protecting people who are lazy and useless & can't do their jobs, or there are good people being dumped on simply because their immediate boss is an asshole or the CEO decides he wants another Ferrari.

    At the very least, IT is an extremely competitive industry. If you were working at Wal-Mart and they did that to you then I would be more inclined to advise you to seek legal advice (though their lawyers are brutal and you probably wouldn't have much chance of winning, even if you had a case!). SInce its an IT job there will always be a way they can say that you didn't cut the mustard, and as they've already said you'd get a good reference, I say use that on your CV and simply state that the company wasn't the right 'fit' for you

    It sucks to be laid off, and every time I go to a new job I worry about it myself for a few months - its human nature to be concerned where your livelihood is concerned. Chin up and start putting your CV out there!
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  19. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

    Ummm. No, thats not actually true. The reason companies only say that is that their legal departments restrict them to that to avoid any chances of being Sued.

    Example 1: ex-employer says "yes, they were a fantastic employee". Employee is crap at new employer. New employer sues the old employer for false representation (or some other similar reason).

    Example 2: ex-employer says "no, they were crap - we hated them". Employee is pissed that they caused him to lose their job. Employee sues the old employer.

    Its also a common misconception that employers arent permitted to give bad references. Again untrue. Its just considered bad form. and again, see example 2 above.

    Again, thats not true in the slightest. Employment law in the UK is heavily weighted towards the employee. Once you are in a job, its incredibly difficult to sack you (Trust me, we had just this issue at my old work where we needed to sack someone who was useless). You need to receive so many warnings, both verbal and written. You need disciplinaries - and to top that off, the employers are not permitted to enter a disciplinary with the intention of sacking them. They must enter and state their case, and allow they employee to state their case. They must then fairly consider it. If even a hint of the employer going in with the intention of sacking them exists, tribunals will find in favour of the employee. Its also exceptionally difficult for the employers to cover themselves. If you are sacked and sue, then you are highly likely to win. If the employer has so much as not crossed a t in the right place, the courts will find in favour of the employee.

    Sure, suing your employer is bad form, and may get around the industry, harming your reputation. But at the end of the day, if you choose to sue, chances are high you will win as the employee.
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  20. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    regardless of which way the legal consensus is weighted
    you SHOULD be able to sack a useless employee, end of story
    why should you have to jump through fiery hoops to get rid of someone that cant do there job? that tarnishes the name of your company? that costs your money? that causes other good people to move on to other places?

    Being a great company requires good employee retention, and good employee rights/benefits, but it also means being able to clean house and get rid of those bad apples that drain a company of good energy
    too many think its all about money, and those are often the ones with completely shite reputations

    should you be sackable for your first transgression? hell no
    should you be sackable for continued inability to do your job? **** yes

    laws are very rigid things that should not be thrown around as liberally as they have been the last 12 years, legislative prohibition is like performing open heart surgery with a chainsaw
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0

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