The value of a Cert

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After reading a post on the topic of MCSE-Win2K Core Exams Getting Refreshed I read on under the article and found some of the MCP user comments interesting.

To quote a couple:

I wondered if anyone was in this position and has had the same experiences. Comments please.

the rest of the comments can be found at the end of the page http://www.mcpmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=574.

 

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I've just about had it with MCSE.

Like that guy said, he'd rather employ someone with expereince.

I have no expereince therefore they don't wanna know.

Well blow them

 

I wouldnt go along with that attitude flex, I dont work in IT "yet" but I know I'll make it. Its all about determination. If you really want it then you'll get there. My friend who introduced my into IT and is a wiz, worked hard to get into IT and came from no experience to being a IT system engineer. I look at his accievemtns and think "I can do it too" and that give me the drive to keep going.

The people that brainbump for exams are just making things harder for all of us and devalueing the certs. Its no wonder employers have such a hard time gettting good emplees when they have to week out all the so called "paper MCSE's". But its like everything in the world today, its very competative out there and if you dont run at the same speed then your never gonna win.

heres another comment from the MCP article with a different viewpoint:

 

Flex

Don't get disheartened, this is just the opinion of 1 guy in IT, there are alot of people out there that do realise that a newbie needs someone to give them a break and give them a chance to prove they can do the job.

It took me some time to get a job in IT, I though i was never going to manage, the job i have now is only helpdesk but as my knowledge grows (having administrator access to the network helps) and the more i poke around on this network, the quicker and more i learn and the chances of moveing up the ladder, in this job or the next, have been greatly increased, use everything to your advantage and DONT give up trying, all your hard work will pay off in the end.

 

Thanks Nelix and Si.

That positive example you gave Nelix was something I unfortunately have never come across.

What that guy said is absolutely spot on, I couldn't agree more.

It is devaluing MCSE.

When I came into this I was so looking forward to learning stuff, so excited.

I tell you what's eaten me away to the point were I'm now at my wits end.

It's the bleepin attitude that that guy mentioned.He said that going on about ahving to have years of experience is devaluing MCSE.

What's withered my enthusiasm and even my will to learn is constantly, constantly hearing,

"well, if you haven't got expereince then your worthless, a paper MCSE, not worth a spit"

This attitude disgusts me.

How dare someone call me a Paper MCSE.

My sister just graduated from University with a degree in Social studies, or summit similar, I forget now.

Anyway, now she's back at home looking for work in order to gain experience.

The thing is, nobody would dream of calling her a Paper graduate because she hasn't got the experience yet, that would be considered absurd, and rightly so.

Yet durin the last year or so of studying that's all I've bleepin heard.

I'm sat here writing this, red as a beetrute coz it so riles me.

Windows 2000 so different from NT4 in many ways.

Actually if you think about it, us new guys now coming through should actually be considered to be the prime crop.

You see, people who have been working on Windows NT4 for years have to learn a whole new way of doing things in Windows 2000.

Us newbies on the other hand don't have this to deal with, coz we never saw NT and don't care about it.

Of course, backward compatibility is their advantage but that's not gonna be around forever.

Anyway, hope I make sense, I usually just spit things out without thinking, oh well

 

IMHO the 2 things go hand in hand (I realise is it difficult if you are just starting out but it is the same in any job)

For many, many years I dismissed the certification route but then in my late 30's decided that I had worked in the industry but could not gauge how good/bad I was so set off on the long trail of getting my MCSE.

If I am ever in the position of hiring people again I shall always favour somebody who has go off their fat a$$, turned off the Solitare, stuck their neck out and sat some exams. It proves two things for me: -

a) they are committed to being the best
b) they can learn new stuff

 

I'm with you Sandy. I worked hard for my MCSE and would be struggling in my job (Humble IT Technician) if I hadn't done it.

Flex - There are employers out there (mine, for example) who value Microsoft certification and the idea that you can gain the qualification without knowing at least some of the important bits is nonsense.

The world of networks and servers is getting more and more complex and if you don't know your stuff (even on "paper") you're stuffed.

 

Quite right.

I'm doing an MCSD, but I'm not from an IT background. Like many others, I'm trying to get a foothold by earning my certification. I don't kid myself about it, I will be a 'paper' MCSD and I work with experienced guys who know more than I ever will, yet have no certifications. I don't use braindumps, just course material. At the end of the day, you sit the same exams as experienced professionals, so something must sink in along the way.
People using braindumps are only cheating themselves and will get caught out sooner or later.

 

Professional Slacker!

 

If you use braindumps in anyway to pass your exams I class you as cheat. There is no good reason ever to use bd. People that do only cheapen the worth of that cert for those that have busted their arse to earn it the hard way.

 

you look at it all to literal
you work in IT, hence your an IT Professional

you work with Microsoft products, hence an MCSE is a boost to your understanding not a qualification to enter the industry
did you do it by reading a book? maybe, why should paying 4 grand be a requirement to be an IT Professional?

paper MCSES are not people who read to study, they are people who actually dont have a clue what it is there studying
ive met MCSES who cant format floppy disks, THOSE are paper MCSEs

 

Don't think anyone around here would argue braindumps aren't worth as much as the paper you wipe your @$$ with, regardless if they've worked for you or not !

Believe me, I say this because I have seen them and laughed !

 

As I'm sure you know, the information posted at braindump sites was provided by test takers who immediately after the test, wrote down as many of the questions and answers as they could recall, then posted them on the Internet. This is in direct violation of the Non-disclosure Agreement (NDA) they digitally signed when the took the exam. They are in violation of contract and if caught, could be criminally prosecuted. Anyone who uses a braindump site is an accessory after the fact.

Also, who's to say these knuckleheads wrote it down write. They are assuming the correct answer to the various questions and could be dead wrong, so the information gathered at braindump sites is questionable at best. Braindumps don't help you do anything except practice poor ethics and morals.

 

Mock exams are what they say - simulated scenarios based closely on what you can expect to face in the real thing, and generally created by people who know what they are talking about. Created specifically as study aids.

Braindumps, as discussed, are partially-remembered rip-offs of exams just taken by individuals, and then sold or re-distributed in order that others can supposedly remember the actual questions set by the exam vendor themselves.

There is a vital distinction here - those that subscribe to the latter definition above are a useless waste of everyone's time.

 

I can't speak for examcram or MS. But I know 2 of the people that write for TS and have been to the place of bussiness while it was still in Nashville. The people that write for TS have a libary that won't quit. They also have networks set up to lean this stuff inside and out. These people bust their arse to learn a subject so they may produce some of the best study matierial out there. There work is on the up and up and no real testing material is used in their products.

 

Gav put it nicely. I believe your understanding of what a braindump is was not quite accurate, wagnerk. Transcender, Cram Exam and MS Press among others, are legitimate sources of information and mock exam software that allow you to practice with the look and feel of taking a test. Glad we got that one cleared up. "whew"