The State of Iowa vs Microsoft

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by ffreeloader, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    So what is in it for you?

    1. You gain a level of trust with your customers that you cannot get any other way. Think about how your customer will view you if you bring him a product he doesn't have to pay for. He will still have to pay for the installation, the administration that he can't do himself--that you're already doing on Windows boxes, the maintanence, etc.... How many customers do you think will look elsewhere when they see you are looking out for their best interests? How far would you look for a service if you know the person you are dealing with is looking out for you?

    2. As a small businessman you get and keep customers through the level of service you give, and the competitiveness of your pricing structure. If you are offering a "free" product how much more competitive can you get? If you are saving your customer thousands of dollars in server and client licenses that he can use in other areas of his business do you think he will appreciate it and tell others about you? That's more business, and an extremely loyal clientele, the holy grail of every good businessman.

    You're a really smart guy, Bluerinse. I'm really surprised you are thinking on such a short term basis.
     
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  2. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    So, are you saying every business in the world is corrupt? Are you saying "the great american dream" is based on screwing over your neighbor and keeping him from having a part of such a dream? Sorry, but that isn't true for the most part. Only the greediest of the greedy really think that way.

    As to your first paragraph, it is irrelevant to issue. The fact that there are many choices in every segment of the market means that there is competition, and thus prices are lower than they would be if the competition didn't exist. That's a proven fact, unless you want to disprove the law of supply and demand.

    And, no I don't drink Pepsi and I don't eat at Mickey D's. If and when do I eat at a restaurant I never go to the highly commercialized ventures. I hate "cookie cutter" food that's made with only one idea in mind: profit. I give my business to the little guy who actually makes a decent, tasty product and provides real service.

    For instance, there are only two restaurants I've eaten at in the last couple of years. The first one is my choice for breakfast or lunch. For quite a bit less than $10 you get a plate of food that spills over the edges because there is so much food on the plate, and tastes wonderful along with giving very personal, friendly service. If you've never lived in a small town you don't really know what that is. No chain/franchise operation can provide it.

    If the wife and I go out for supper we go to a small Thai restaurant that has the best food around. (I could eat it 3 meals a day, 7 days a week, and never get tired of it.) The service is pleasant, friendly, and personal. The little Thai lady that owns the place and does the cooking will come out occasionally and ask how your food is. She actually cares if her customers are satisfied.

    The food there is also a wonderful value. We will order family style and get 4 or 5 different dishes. The total tab, with tip, will come to around $35 and the wife and I will eat leftovers, makes my mouth water just to think about Thai food for breakfast, at least twice more. We will get a total of 6 of what are basically home cooked Thai meals for our $30 and the food is fantastic. Needless to say it's hard to get a spot in the parking lot and it's normal to have to wait in line to get a table.
     
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  3. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Well I do give home users AVG free rather than selling the a bloated costly alternative and I do my best to keep their costs as low as possible. I agree with your ethics Freddy and I am not about to start leeching my clients for all their worth. I have also worked for companies that do that and I really despise that kind of business. However, I am talking operating systems here and trying (like the other posters here) to try and explain to you why Microsoft is not necessarily as bad as you might think. They are a monopoly and they have a huge fan base for their workstation operating system. I can give my clients what they want and make a little money whilst I am at it. If I tried to push open source or alternative pay for OSs on them, they would not thank me. They want Windows, it's a fact which you seem to ignore - They, the consumer like Windows for better or worse, they keep coming back for more, sheesh even after ME they still wanted more - In an ideal world everyone would be equal but Microsoft is not playing on an equal field to it's competitors. Build a bridge and get over it :biggrin
     
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  4. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I've not seen any "Windows License" agreement that states that a manufacturer cannot produce a PC with a competing OS or that a retailer cannot sell a computer with a competing OS. Dell certainly doesn't have that limitation, because they sell a PC that doesn't contain Windows - they even sell boxes that run Linux! CompUSA certainly doesn't have that limitation, because they sell Apple computers. So where's this agreement that restricts those two in particular?

    Don't tell me that there's NO way Linux can get out there. I've showed one clear path, and there are probably many more.

    Why do they have to offer dual-boot computers? And again, what license prevents them from offering computers with Linux? HP offers Linux. Dell offers Linux. Others can certainly do so, but they choose not to. It's not worth it to them to do so. Supply and demand... and the demand's not there. If it were profitable, they'd do it.

    Agreed. Our employees like Windows and Office, our IT director likes Windows and Office, and I like Windows and Office... better than I like the alternatives, even though I have to pay for Microsoft's software. I've used the alternatives, I'm certified on the alternatives, but I prefer Windows. I guess I'm just a sheep, huh?

    Same here. We're coming due for a Symantec renewal, and we're considering moving to another AV solution... not necessarily because of cost, but because of performance. This is NOT the case with our Windows server and workstation OSes. We've had excellent results using them, and will continue to do so for that reason.
     
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  5. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    And folks, here's the reason Freddy hates Microsoft - they're not the little guy that doesn't have profit as his main focus. To him, a successful corporation like Microsoft can't create a decent product and provide good service.

    I guess the rest of us are just misinformed about Microsoft, and if we knew how much better alternative (and free!) OSes and apps worked, we'd all switch. Whodathunkit?!? :ohmy
     
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  6. nugget
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    nugget Junior toady

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    No, not every business and I don't recall saying that what they do is corrupt.

    It depends on which way you look at it. I'm sure that the great american dreamers call it smart business. When I look at a glass that is half filled, I see a glass that is still half full not one that is half empty.

    While I agree on your taste for food, my comment wasn't really for discussing it. You go on about MS locking out it's competitors with their licensing like no other business does it.

    Did you know that Macdonalds makes local councils sign agreements that say they can't give permission to their competitor (Burger King) to build a franchise within a certain distance of a MD restaurant.

    How about Pepsi (and Coke too) doing the same thing in schools and universities to shut the other one out.

    These guys have competition (and not small ones) but you're not complaining about them, just MS.

    As for Gucci, Benneton and Co, this goes in the other direction. They all have a lot of competition and still keep the prices very high. Why? Because people demand and they supply, and people are still willing to pay the high prices.
     
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  7. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Wow what a thread!:biggrin

    I can see the points from both sides of the table here.:dry

    The IT world is run by MS and for those who are not aware of the alternatives are being pushed towards the MS option.

    But so many people out there click on yes to download stuff for their PC without really thinking if they need it or not!:rolleyes:

    For a lot of us just starting in IT or use IT but don't really understand how it works, we are brainwashed into thinking MS is our friend and will secure us by protecting our information on the computer. But do we really know what they do with that information?

    Looking from Ryan's point of view, yes he is right you get what you pay for. If it works and lets face it some of the Linux Distro's still don't recognise sound cards like creative. Then why not pay for something that is easy to install and works rather than something that is free and still doesn't work after installing the correct drivers for it. (if your wondering I am referring to SUSE)

    Certainly the company I work for said they would never go to Linux because of it's poor history. They need something that works and has a proven track record. Even though they pay through the nose for CISCO, they have tried other on the market and have been let down big time as well as lost a lot of money over it.

    However, I do feel Freddy you are pushing your opinions on others here, brainwashing them trying to tell everyone there views are wrong, you are right and not really listening to all the sides of the argument.:(

    Edit: removed remark

    Casablanca & mitzs have hit the nail on the head there, your not helping people understand the pros and cons of MS your venting your anger on CF:cry:
     
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  8. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    OK people. I quit. Stick your heads in the sand and be happy in your ignorance. I'm sick of seeing the straw men, the posts that don't even begin to address the issues, etc....

    If a lone voice on this site against corporate corruption is to be defined as "brainwashing" then I don't see what chance you all have of ever living in a world that has less corruption. When all your choices, and mine, are gone then you'll see what kind of master you will have consciously chosen. You can call me loony, say I wear a tin foil hat, make up all the untrue statements you want, but mark my words, the day will come when you'll see we privacy rights advocates that you all considered to be loony alarmists were correct. The only problem is that by then it will be too late to do anything about it. You will have screwed yourselves by not caring about the issues when it really mattered: when the course of events could have been changed if people had actually cared about their rights.

    So, farewell. I tried. I leave you to your slumber.
     
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  9. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Still being a bit melodramatic eh freddy?

    i think the problem is you think because we all have a different view to you we must have our head in the sands, we must be missing the point, we are making a poor choice, etc etc
    its pure arrogance to think your viewpoint is the only correct/logical one and to assume we are not able to come to our own educated conclusions


    most of us here can agree to disagree on numerous issues, thats the sign of a mature and educated forum populace, in fact on one of my forums we have actually had a 10 page discussion on war and warcrimes in ww2 with German, Jewish, British and other national participants without it turning into a flame war in a matter of posts, thats exactly the type of thread i expect to see on CF, not something like this where every opinion is discounted as it differs from that of the OP

    perhaps you can take that into consideration
     
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  10. supag33k

    supag33k Kilobyte Poster

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    Hey Freddie,

    Long time no hear!!

    Yes well it is an apathetic world we live in from time to time for sure!

    However i dont think that by saying that last sentence that certain people here are apathetic...no way!

    Basically if the PC ends up like a console and software fees get to expensive and the terms too harsh - well most average IT types will let out a real yell!

    Yes also in that perhaps freedom of choice, and to some extent freedom itself is blighted when spin doctors attempt to alter the reality of things, and executives or politicians pursue harsh corporate or governement policies to maximise profit or power respectively.

    For instance you could apply your comments to the Corporate/Military super lobby in USA, ie the Carlisle group and Halliburtons etc...BTW the super lobby influence is seen as an absolute nightmare by many non US westerners and certainly Muslims and the third world.

    Also note that most IT people are too intelligent and have too much to do to get waylaid by all this occurring.

    We are however like the general community in that once we really need to fight for our freedoms we will fight though!

    For examples merely look at the battles of the 20th Century...WW's etc and the peaceful revolution of the 60's.

    Remember that our forefathers fought for freedom and that means we have real rights to politely disagree in whatever discussion or forum. A central tenant of the democratic and free rights beliefs is that "I may not agree with your opinions or points of view - but I would give my life so that you may speak freely."

    Basically the before mentioned power brokers of what-ever ilk know that they are playing with the fire of community spirit if they go too far in their machinations!

    just my 2 cents worth!

    supag33k
     
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  11. Dhughes

    Dhughes Byte Poster

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    Without restarting this how thread again could i just make a simple obersavation, please correct me if ive miss the point or have got it wrong

     
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  12. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Sure, they profit from buying large quantities and building them quickly. But they don't always use the absolute BEST components, and in the boxes I build, I *do*. It's the difference between buying a bike from a shop... and building a bike to YOUR specifications, not somebody elses.

    I tend to look for sales and best bang-for-the-buck quality components... so in the end, I've got a blazingly fast box, and it's built with components I selected, and at a good price. I built a Core2Duo box on an Asus P5B motherboard in an Antec P180B case, 2GB of PC800 memory, X850 XT video card, SoundBlaster X-Fi Fata1ity sound card, and dual 320 GB SATA2 drives for around $1200, shipped. Why couldn't I get as good a setup from Dell for that price?

    Until recently, you couldn't get a Dell PC without an OS. I already have legal licenses for Windows, so I don't need to buy their OS. Saves me a bit of money if I don't need the license, right? Additionally, if the parts were top-of-the-line, I'd have no need for their warranty, which would also save me money. Perhaps this is why I can build a high-quality box for as cheap or cheaper than Dell can.
     
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  13. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I would like to agree with most of the posts on here but especially phoenix's post

    I have used many OS's most of one Phoenix has the problem I think is that people dont like a business becoming too big and I'm sorry to say but Business is Business.

    If you start a Business the main objective is to make money once you have a good turn over then you can expand to make evn more money and if you crush someone else in your way then so be it.

    Take Windows for example yes we all know it was stolen the MAC OS but then it was expanded upon and made better, it does what you want it to, thats why its become mainstream and thats why other OS's are being forgotten or not used much.

    We all know that Unix is more stable than Windows but is it as user freindly to the common PC user. The answer is no that is why Microsoft is where it is and where it will be for a long time to come.

    PS pheonix I remember workbench Amiga OS it was pretty good for that sort of computer
     
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