taking a computer to bits

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What's with this post ?? How can CF be accused of being biased towards self-study, and anti-training provider ??

"Save yourself money - buy some books" - yeah, shoot us for that message !!

FFS - can Staff do the neutrality speech please !!

 

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The only reason I recommend self study is that it saves you money.

I was about to sign with a training provider but found this forum first by simply typing compTIA A+ help on google.

My third post was basically asking if the money I was going to spend was a fair amount, the first reply I got said why not buy the books and study on your own without spending all that money. I had never thought of this as I was under the impression I had to go with a company to take the exams.

I later found out that I could book the exams myself at a nearby test centre.

Money wise I have spent £80 on material for the A+ this includes, an old PC, Mike Meyers book, and PC Technician Streets Smarts. Thats a saving of £690 as the training provider was going to charge £770 for the A+ course and that did not include the exams.

The demo of the course that I downloaded was good and well written but it did not justify that sort of money.

 

First off, training providers often use the books that we create. Thus, we have a buyer for our books whether or not people decide to take training classes.

Second, it is absurd to say that my advice comes to give myself or my employer an advantage, because my employer operates a Cisco training center. That said, we don't push a "7 certifications for $30,000" deal like other training centers do, nor do we make promises of employment.

Finally, when I advise that people use self-study methods, I typically mention books and hands-on experience. I currently have ONE book published, so that advice doesn't help me a great deal. On the other hand, I have DOZENS of practice exam questions on the market. Although I also think taking practice exams is a good reason, I often don't promote them loudly enough specifically because I want to avoid an appearance of impropriety in my advice.

If I simply wanted to make a buck, I'd tell people to certify as much as possible, regardless of their experience. But I don't. Why? It's simply not a good idea for their career to get overcertified. Telling someone to do something I don't believe in would compromise my ethics and integrity, and I'm not willing to do that just to make money.

Thus... your comments are way out of line.

 

I was not aiming my comments at you BosonMichael or GBL but the fact that you think I am says a lot. I just notice that everyone on this forum says A+ N+ MCDST and when other people disagree everyone jumps on them saying why they are wrong like Ciscopaul recommends something everyone says he is just trying to sell his business or maybe he is just stating his opinion?

 

He is trying to sell stuff though.

However if someone wants to go with a training provider that is up them, I have learned from reading posts on here that over certification with out relevant experience is detrimental to the employee when going for jobs, there was a post other week on that. The poster said she had MCSE certification but couldn't get a job because she didn't have the relevant experience so what BM said was correct.

I have also said just because someone can score well on MS Flight simulator, your not gonna give them a jumbo to fly are you.

Its the same with certs just because someone has CCNA and no real experience, no company in their right mind is gonna let the person loose on their servers and network.

Training providers will sell you their course for as much money as possible (theres been people on here doing the same cert path with a training provider being charged different money) and wont tell you what proper path you should be taking.

General entry cert path is A+ N+ and MCDST. A+ is normally done first but its not mandatory in what order you do them in.

 

I write no books. I work for no certifications organizations. I have absolutely nothing to gain by recommending self-study to anyone, other than I think they deserve to hear the truth and I have a responsibility to tell them the truth. I've never even knowingly recommended a book written by someone I know.

There are so many disreputable organizations out there selling people with no experience high level certs that a forum like this needs to be here to combat the flat out lies that are told by salesmen. Far too many people shell out thousands of dollars and get nothing more in return than they would have gotten for a few hundred dollars and avoided the "training" providers. At the same time getting them started at a foundational level is doing them a huge service. They need to understand the basics before they jump to high level studies. If they don't get the basics they will never be sound technicians as they will not understand what is really going on.

So, just how are you going to say I make my recommendations for personal gain????

 

That is only one person I know someone in the same position with an MCSE no experience and they got a job so BM was incorrect.

That is not true there is many people who get a job because of the CCNA with no real experience.

Again a very sweeping statement not all training providers will do that some will some won't.

I agree with that.

 

I was not saying you do to be fair I do not read many post from you as they are quite long and tend to be boring, but I have to say I agree with what you just said.

 

I take offense to your statement not because we do these things, but because you paint the picture with an overly broad brush, catching me and Trip broadly within your brush stroke.

When someone gives an opinion that directly benefits them, and they flagrantly advertise their products in their post, then it becomes more than an opinion - it becomes a sales pitch.

Why do you think we blast training providers that tell prospective students to pay tens of thousands of pounds to get a bunch of certifications so they can start out making 40K per year? Because it's not true - they're simply telling the students that because they make money by spreading the false information.

I tell people what I tell them because it has repeatedly proven to be true. It is quite the exception to the rule to get a CCNA and land a networking job without experience - it's statistically and factually proven to not be the "norm". To say otherwise, and to attempt to make money off that misinformation, is nothing more than shady salesmanship.

The reason people say the same things I say isn't because they're just following my lead... it's because THEY have seen that those statements are true, and state them independently of their own accord. I don't pretend to be important enough or popular enough for people to simply parrot what I'm saying. Truth is truth, and it is usually brought into the light by those who are willing to seek it.

 

And I know hundreds of others who have problems doing so. That person is the exception, not the norm.

Get a job because of the CCNA, or get a job? There's a distinction.

Again, someone getting the CCNA and getting a job without experience is the exception, not the rule.

Hey, man, give whatever advice you want to give. I'll give mine as well, putting my experiences in IT and certification training up against yours, and we'll just have to disagree.

 

That has to be an exception

Are you sure it was because of CCNA and not because they showed some ability, are they actually doing CISCO related stuff without any commercial experience, I doubt it.

Find me one

 

The one BM works for.

 

Why can your's not be the exception?

When they gave him the job they said it was because of the CCNA it showed he had potential.

 

Ah, but the TP I work for is a rare exception. I can say with some degree of certainty that DataSchenk in Smyrna, TN is another one of the "good guys". However, the "bad ones" who push high-priced training and fill prospective studens up with dreams of big money in IT by getting tons of certifications are far, far more common.

Arro, I understand the need to get the thread back on topic. But I refuse to let misinformation spread, and I refuse to have some of our members (including me) have our names dragged through the mud.

 

I never dragged your name through the mud I never even mentioned your name! The fact that you think when I mentioned some people on here try to push there own products you imediatley thought of yourself says it all I think.

 

Rob
your still way off topic, and have been asked to leave it out
if you want to rant about whatever do it in the off topic forum, and I'm sure our members will be happy to tear everyones arguments apart

this thread however was started but an inquisitive member and i doubt he's keen on having it hijacked so vigorously

 

Arroryn asked to get back to topic but BM still contiued but you did not mention the above statment to him.

 

Read AJ's response which applies to everyone.