NITLC help - WEB course

Oh man! Ad-blocking software has been detected! :'(

This website is run by the community, for the community... and it needs advertisements in order to keep running. Blocking our ads means your killing our stats!
Please disable your ad-block, or become a premium member to hide all advertisements and this notice.

i actually did LOL at that - gotta ask "why" the page itself has links etc etc but it doesnt look "that" complicated?? (i know im not that good yet but>#??)

 

Oh man! Ad-blocking software has been detected! :'(

This website is run by the community, for the community... and it needs advertisements in order to keep running. Blocking our ads means your killing our stats!
Please disable your ad-block, or become a premium member to hide all advertisements and this notice.

I'm going to remember that site for anytime I need examples of every point we've made!

<META NAME="generator" CONTENT="Web Studio, Version 4.0 for Windows">

 

Evening all

Ok I really have taken the advice of the people on here (JonnyMX, Josiahb etc etc)
and messed around notebook etc and look for things on the web.

Now you (as I thought you would be) are right and I can find 90% of answers in books and free on the web. I have “read” “learnt” “played” and “downloaded” many useful things that have got me through (X)HTML, CSS, graphics etc etc.

The one thing I am struggling with (and this was the thing I did like about a training company) is the “structure” of learning and a plan with info included.

Below is a more detailed list of what I was going to do on the course. The problems are as follows: -

1. Some of the things on the list I have researched and found cost big time! i.e bought a VB2008 step by step but cant do anything till get “visual studio 2008” £250ish.

2. Below is a choice between VB2008 or C#2008 to do for ASP.NET – is there a reason why both are offered?

3. Anyone know how to get a structure in my life without paying £1000’s when I can self teach and pay a small% of that.

Static Web design

HTML
CSS
SEO
Javascript
XML

Adobe

Adobe certified expert (will be doing when get CS4 delivered)

Dynamic Web design

ASP.NET in VB 2008 or C# 2008
E-commerce
Relational Database design
SQL express

MCTP

70-562 Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5, ASP.NET Application Development
70-536 Microsoft .NET Framework – Application Development Foundation

MCPD

70-564 (PRO): Designing and Developing ASP.NET Applications Using the Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5

hope you can help

Torrix

 

1. Yup, they can do. Leave buying expensive tools until you're in a position to use them. Most offer free trials and there are 'cut down' free alternatives to many. You could also look into home/student licensing for some software.

2. There are loads of different languages out there. Some are better for some things and some people/companies will use one or two as standard. The .NET framework means you can use many languages to collaborate. Pick one.

3. Depends what you mean by structure. If you just want to learn a particular topic or skill then keep reading up on it and practicing until you get where you want to be. If you want to do a programming course or learn a skill like that, you may be better off with a college course or the OU etc. If you want to study towards a cert such as the old 70-305 then any books you read or courses you do will be aimed at meeting the objectives of that exam, which is what MS say you need to gain that cert. It's not necessarily the most rounded way of learning a new skill.

I think you've started off in the right way, you just need to reign in the desire to go running off.
You say you've been having a go - have you actually built a full website and published it?

 

I used my arse at college and put on all the computers screensavers in the learning resource center

 

cheers.

Ok basic idea is I wanna be a SE designer/developer so that what I want to "head for" the reason I asked about the long list on todays post is "that" is what the course advised to get to to be ableto do the job well.

Havent touched a GUI yet

I am on version 1.1 of a "stag do" website but not 100% happy to publish lol - I'm picky with the details.

Ok lets throw another ball in here? the CIW self teach things dont look tooo expensive?? worth it or ???

 

To just to add something useful to this. Employers would be more impressed with a portfolio of designs and links to work done by you than a certification but both would give you a better chance.

 

CIW is not bad - plenty of stuff in there that you really should know.
But it isn't a substitute for hands-on experience.
I think there are issues with buying the stuff privately in the UK, but I'm not sure.

Don't put off actually publishing stuff as a learning experience because it isn't perfect.
It never will be at this stage.
Just get some experience.

I've done some horrible stuff in the past that I was quite proud of at the time.
Don't be afraid for the world to see your stuff - it's got to happen sooner or later, and the irony is that the better you get, the less tolerant people get of your mistakes...

 

This.

The major advantage at this point of throwing your stuff out there is that if you ask in the right places you'll find helpful people willing to take a look and make sure your not doing anything a) badly and b) the long way.

I can't actually count the number of times in the early days I did something in some painfully cack handed fashion only to be told shortly afterwards that you could do it far simpler.

As for software, if you really want to leap into .NET http://www.microsoft.com/express/

Oh, and as GBL says, the guys I know who work in web design and development got there by having a portfolio of work to show off rather than a long list of certs. Once you've got yourself to a point where you producing something reasonable, talk to local business, sports teams, etc etc many of them would be willing to pay for a simple website to advertise there existence. And if they can't or won't pay, do it for free anyway. The experience will do you good!

 

Hiya,

I have been following your discussion re the Web Design Course with NITLC with some interest. I am also considering going with NITLC to study the same course and I have been quoted £5.6k for the entire programme from beginner to master.

I understood what you meant when you said you wanted structure to help you through your independent study. I think this is the prime reason why You and I consider these providers; Structure. How do you organised your study to make sure you cover what you need to cover in your chosen field.

I guess the syllabus you have quoted from NITLC gives you that structure, but that would mean buying several books to fit in with your needs, etc. In essence, the price quoted by the providers are quite high + £5k, and you are getting the books, the tutors' time, some structure, dedicated forums, etc.

The alternative, which is independent study should cost £1k - £2k, and you'll be getting the books, free online forums, own pc(s). It seems to me that structure is what will be lacking, just as you mention above. So the key question I realise is to find out what it is you need to be what you want to be, and that requires an understanding of the external environment of businesses. Which technologies must I master, which ones must I be aware of, and what is to be ignored because soon to be obsolete. If you work that out, you, I shouldn't really need to shell out the big money assuming there is the will power to do it alone (mostly).


Did you make the decision not to go for the course?

Thanks and sorry for the fairly long very first post.

 

You sound like you're on the fence a bit there.
I'm not sure if you are advocating TPs or self study.
Or doing one while trying to make it seem like you're doing the other...

 

Hello and welcome

Its a hugh brain fart isnt it...!

This is gonna have to be fast as the "wife" isnt to happy about the time I have spent on here today.

The main answer is after a lot of thought I decided not to go for the course. Goping down the self teach route.

As you said the "kinda" structure is in the quote we were given. With help from different people on here and other sites I decided that there is a "lot" of other stuff you have to learn as well as things changing every day with web design/development.

What I will say is due to the fact we are both gonna be looking for the same stuff, trying things etc around the same time, if you wanna PM me we may be able to swap emails etc and kinda be "lab partners" in my mind two heads are better than one.

Like I say loadsa things I could go on about but will bore the other readers.

Hope to catch you soon.

Torrix

 

Hey Jonny,

Before I jumped to bed, let me respond to your post as tomorrow will sure be busy.

You are 'right' in stating that I am sitting on the fence, but I have realised, thanks to this thread, that there isn't much differeence between the TPs and independent study except 2 things:

# A big hole in your bank account, and

# The need to figure out for yourself what you must master as an independent learner (You are not really on your own since you may ask around what's hot and what isn't, but ultimately you make the decision)

So, I will get back to the NITLC rep sometime next week, and inform him of my decision. Although, I came into the debate with an open mind, I joined you in realising that there is a cost effective alternative and I could really do with keeping £5.6k in my bank account.

Cheers, and have a good day Monday!

 

Hi Torrix,

I agree about the hard decisions to be made about these stuff; they ain't easy; I am sure you had to think long and hard before deciding on your next step.

The reason I wanted to do Web design/Ecommerce was to add to my business skills and accounting background with the view to one day become a bridge between business people and techies, and provide better solutions to Finance processes including intranet, online payments services, better supply chain integration, xml (xbrl), etc. There seems to be (actually is) a funny relationship between managers and IT professionals (one group needs the other more than it would like)

Going back to independent study, I believe it is possible to research business trends, consult with industry insiders to identify the core technologies and critical skills we were going to fork over £5k for. This information is readily available and not at this price. This is the structure. It is market driven, flexible, and as responsive as you make it; you are not given a syllabus set in stone by a tuition provider. You can change track at a drop of a book by studying the market and learning appropriately.

I think your idea on collaborating is great; we seem to be at fairly similar stage of our web training (newbies; I saw your post on changing the background colour of a webpage and using the mailto anchor to reference an email address; I went through the same and then realised, a bit later, I was simply taking my baby steps.) So, I am up for it, and do let me know how we can make it work, I will also think about it, and we can surely start to exchange mails and share our experiences.

Enough for now, it is bed time. Good day Monday!

 

Yes it is a big/costly decision.

I guess I'm on the fence a bit too.
What the more experienced people sometimes forget is that when you're new - you really don't know where to start and what to do.
My first cert was through a TP.
It's only with hindsight that I thought to myself - 'hang on, I could have done this for 1/10th of the cost.'
But in reality, I couldn't have because I didn't know then what I know now.

Since then I've gone my own way, but I do prefer the structured learning offered by say the OU.

The big thing to always remember - there are good TPs and bad TPs.
Unfortunately we only seem to hear about the big bad ones.

Look for something small - a guy running an A+ class out of his garage.
He depends on word of mouth and happy customers to keep going.
The industry giants can afford to hurl cash into advertising campaigns and will always have willing applicants no matter how good or bad they are.

 

Good point Jonny..!

My dad is a SE decorator and has never advertised, all word of mouth so he always puts 150% into "every" job that way he gets more work - (like today getting me to hold a ladder for 5 hours when I had just sat down to learn JS grrrr)

 

Hi Torrix,

It's 2013. Could u provide any useful feedback. What happened? Was it worth not doing the NITLC course?

Any feedback appreciated.

Earl M