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Need advice from all of you

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by thua, May 22, 2008.

  1. thua

    thua New Member

    Hi everybody I just joined today, I am in the UK, a recent graduate Aug 2007, graduated with an Hons degree in Business Information Systems and my career asprations is to be a systems analyst/developer.

    I have been looking for a job for 6 months now, and I have been turned down numerous times because of my lack of commercial experience. I have two leads that I feel may be able to kick start my career and would be very greatful for any advice you give me because I have been struggling in trying to make a decision on my future in regard to what I am going to mention, and because most of you are certified proffessionals and would know if I am being taken advantage of or not.

    Ill start with this advert that I saw that I would like you to take a look at http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?NoExpire=1&JobId=38257216. I called them and they told me to look at their website which is here http://www.itfuturesonline.com/. They told me that the "career path" offered under courses in their website would be partially sponsored. They would pay £1500 while I pay £2000.

    One of the most important questions I brought up to them was, the material in particular the books provided are relatively cheap and so how did they justify the amount of money they quoted for training. His answer was and I quote "you can get a book to teach you how to drive, but without the practical experience it would be hard". Therefore he broke it down to me that the on-line class room environment, In-house projects and assignments given would give me the commercial experience I need to kick start my career and a job guaranteed at the end of my training, and I will not have to be tied down to them in anyway after my training. And they offer an MCAD, MCSA, MCDBA. The question is, after looking at the website and the ad offer what do you all think???

    Secondly take a look at this http://www.fdmacademy.com/academy-training/developer/.net/. Some of you probabbly know about them, and they offer free training, however you have to be tied down to them for 2 years where they pay you a fixed salary of £10000 p/a and 6 pounds/hr whch will eqate to around £20000p/a and increase in the second year. As you will see from the website I would have to be in-house for 3 -4 months from 9am - 5:30pm mon - friday when I choose my specialist stream. This means funding myself, for that duration and as I am an international student this is my only problem as I do not wish to burden my parents too much although I know they would be supportive. Secondly some of my IT buddies have critisised FDM because of the fixed salary and just making money off their junior developers for two years, while I get "peanuts" with MCAD qualifications. And I am not sure whether to do JAVA or .NET, I was hoping to find out which is more marketable from the rest of you.

    I am sorry for rumbling on its just I am stuck between the two organisations and if you could just spare some time to look through both websites and the ad and advice me from a proffessional point of view because you have all undertaken the training and would know what it takes to be certified, and whether or not both organisations just take advantage of fresh meat straight out of Uni with all this talk, or its actually a good career move.

    Thank you
  2. thua

    thua New Member

    hmmm...41 views and no comment. I can understand that. I should have probably read through the whole forum before posting this, and I was up until 4 am going through all the self study and training provider threads. I actually found a thread on IT Futures on-line and from what I have read I dont think I will be giving them any money, however FDM unlike other training providers are guaranteeing a job and pay after they train you, and have a list of clients and the training is free. So from what I have read about training providers would it be wrong to assume that FDM would not be training you for free if they were going to try and screw you over??
  3. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    You CAN work on programming projects in a classroom environment to give you experience... but you can't really get real, practical IT administration experience in a classroom environment... at least, not the kind of experience that employers are looking for. Experience isn't just working with a technology in a sterile, closed lab environment... experience is working with a technology in an environment with real-life users and real-life data and real-life downtime that occurs when your real-life network goes down... and a real-life boss hanging over your shoulder because of real-time revenue being lost. A classroom environment cannot accurately simulate that for the administration side.

    In truth, you can set up a self-study lab at home! It's not as expensive as you might think. The only thing that a training provider offers that you cannot have through self-study is an instructor... and those are hit and miss. You might get a good one... you might get a bad one - one who reads from a book, or one who learned yesterday what you're learning today.

    What you're looking for is an instant way to make yourself more attractive to employers. Classroom training isn't going to do it. Getting a bunch of advanced certifications isn't going to do it.

    I have no experience with FDMAcademy, but anytime a training provider starts talking about "guaranteed training", I get skeptical. Nobody can guarantee you a job unless they have a job that they are giving you... but it seems like they actually GIVE you a job. But even though that concern is removed, you then add the concern of being tied down to a company for two years. What if the working conditions are horrible? Asked to commute to an inconvenient location? Tied to a slave-driving supervisor who you **cannot** choose to leave? Made to work overtime often? (If you think IT is always 9-5... well, that misconception will eventually be cleared up for you!! :biggrin)

    It also looks like you are shooting in the dark with regards to what you want to do. You mention that one of those training providers offer you the MCAD, MCSA, and MCDBA. These are three pretty different roles... programmer, network administrator, database administrator. I would recommend that you choose whether you would rather learn to be a programmer or learn to be a tech, then work from there.

    I guess what I'm saying is this... you don't *have* to be enslaved to an organization, nor do you have to go into insane amounts of debt to get into IT. If you want to be a programmer, learn to program. If you want to be a tech, start out with with the fundamentals offered with the A+, Network+, and MCDST, and work up from there. If you want to be a database administrator, I'd recommend that you get your feet wet with one of the other tracks and work up to being a DBA.
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  4. thua

    thua New Member

    Thanks for your advice, I actually do know that I want to be a Systems Analyst/Developer as I want to be involved in every aspect of the SDLC from requirements gathering to implementation and maintenance.

    Using hindsight I feel that I shouldnt have dropped my .NET module in my second year, as I am now regretting it because System Analyst jobs always ask for programming skills, and even when they say graduate experience I doubt I have that because I have not done it for 2 years :(

    I did think about trying to get the material myself but thought .NET software costs alot of money, or am i wrong?

    Thanks to you I can now move foward, and I am actually going to try and get some 1st line support work to get in to the industry, and hopefully work on my programming during that period and try get the appropriate materials to practice my programming and work towards getting an MCAD cert, or join Uni again this sept and do my masters in BIS and during this time take the web app module and work on my programing, I am hoping I wont be a fish out of water at this point.

    Thanks for the advice...:D
  5. Indo77

    Indo77 Nibble Poster

    If you want to just use .NET as a development tool on your own testing environment, you can pretty much get what you want for free. Download Visual Web Developer Express 2008, you will need the .NET framework (2.0 or later) but I am pretty sure it comes with the VWDE 2008 (v.3.5 I think). You will need some sort of Database engine, again you can download SQL Server Express for free (be sure to download the free studio management tools along with this) or MySql. You will need IIS installed. If you go for the MySql option you will need the .net connector tools. Be warned, SQL Server Express can be a pain to configure with Asp.net - won't recognise logins, permissions etc. If you have MS Access you can use it instead, although NEVER expect to see Access in the real world as a database solution (it's not one). Access would purely be used for your own practice scripting. Many colleges use Access for this reason.

    To be honest, in the world of .NET MCAD is an outdated cert and one which I have never had any interest aiming for. Many trainers still push for it, for the simple reason the same trainers are comfortable with the material. It focuses so much on the old 1.0 and 1.1 versions of .NET. If you really want to go down this route of certs, then I would suggest the new Microsoft Certified Training Specialist (MSTS) exams. They have adapted ones for .NET 2.0 onwards. The Microsoft Certified Professional Developer (MCPD) replaced the MCAD certs.
    Certifications: BSc (Hons) HNC

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