Laws/Rules

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by ffreeloader, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,183
    500
    414
    Mmmm... didn't know you were that well versed on what criminals carry when they invade a home. You likely don't hear about it when it happens and nobody gets shot because when only the criminals have guns, and the home owners do not, the home owner gets robbed and the criminal gets away, shooting nobody.

    Sure, if the criminal and the home owner both have guns, the opportunity for someone to get shot increases... but it's not usually the home owner. :gun
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  2. newkoba

    newkoba Byte Poster

    144
    2
    24
    per capita canada has far more guns than the US and yet they have significantly lower crime. why is that? certainly doesn't have to do with us in the US owning less guns. saying that owning guns increasing crime is an illogical statement, especially when crime in general, not just crimes involving guns, is hiring the uk where you don't own hand guns.

    http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html
     
    Certifications: Security + and CEH
    WIP: CWNA and CWSP
  3. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,183
    500
    414
    Exactly. Gun deaths might be higher... but overall crime is lower.

    You don't see us complaining about lack of protection over here, like you guys were in a thread a couple months ago. I don't fear, here.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  4. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154
    I'm afraid I would have to take some of the things that guy is saying and claiming with a huge pinch of salt. I'd be more inclined to believe his stats on the stopping power of various handguns and types of ammunition. Some handy links for how to get hold of Magnum's also.

    I'm not for a second saying that the UK is some haven where violent crime doesn't happen and people never use guns. Those who have grown up with a gun culture as opposed to those who haven't are probably never going to see eye to eye on this and I can accept that.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  5. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    2,397
    99
    154

    That guys stats are highly questionable, as he's come up with the figures from all over the place and made plenty of assumptions.

    As for 'I don't fear, here'.

    Umm, neither do I. And I have lived in some area's that were high crime area's when I was a student. Another thing I don't fear is getting shot ...
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  6. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,183
    500
    414
    I'm not using ANY guys' stats... I'm telling you how it is in the US from someone who actually lives here.

    Besides, 83.4% of all statistics are made up. :rolleyes:

    I neither live in a high crime area, nor am I afraid of getting shot. My house has never been broken into, nor has my parents' house.... nor has my wife's house, my wife's parents' house, my sister's house, my brother's house... it simply doesn't happen much over here.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  7. newkoba

    newkoba Byte Poster

    144
    2
    24
    damn i thought it was 87.5% of stats were made up. as far as that guys link that was just the first page that google pulled up when i googled "crime in the us vs the uk"

    this is the second http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/810522.stm

    third
    http://www.usa-vs-uk.com/crime.html

    you get the point it isn't just one person's assumption and figures from every which place. it is a factual statement and a fair observation.

    you are right about the clash of cultures between gun owning countries and non gun owning countries. much like our silly religious debate a week or so ago, michael and i will never see eye to eye about that, but in this situation we seem to be pretty much on the same pace.

    oh on a side note since Clinton's Brady bill went away gun crimes have dropped.... so gun control is just like metal detectors at a theme park. a false sense of security.
     
    Certifications: Security + and CEH
    WIP: CWNA and CWSP
  8. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    5,257
    220
    236
    A while ago, on a similar thread, I asked what would be considered 'acceptable' in the US.

    For example:

    1) I hear a noise downstairs at night, see a shadowy form and shoot him dead. What happens next?

    2) I hear a noise outside at night, see someone on my land hanging around my garage. Can I shoot him?

    3) I hear a noise outside. An old lady is being mugged in the street. Can I shoot at the muggers?

    4) A salesman won't leave my house despite repeated requests to do so. Can I shove my gun up his nose and say 'make my day'?

    OK, I'm being a bit silly, but it strikes me that despite the levels of gun ownership in the US,
    there don't really seem to be any guidelines as to how they can be used, or what the consequences are if you do shoot a burglar dead.

    Am I wrong?
    Or is it just something that doesn't really come up often?

    Somebody earlier mentioned that I can get a driver's license and drive a car, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily use the car in a safe manner.

    No, but at least there is a highway code telling me what I can and can't do.

    Is there a 'highway code' for gun ownership?
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  9. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,183
    500
    414
    That's because one is a belief based on faith, and the other is based on factual observation and statistical data.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award 500 Likes Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,183
    500
    414
    On the contrary... there are PLENTY of laws that cover those situations. There are laws that specify what is "reasonable force", and there are laws that determine when and where you can carry a concealed firearm. The laws vary from state to state and city to city, and I'm not a lawyer, so I can't give you a precise answer.

    To tell you the truth, if it happened more often, I'd be more knowledgeable about the law regarding these matters. But to be honest... the subject simply doesn't come up all the time because people aren't getting shot all over the place... nor are there a large number of crimes committed in most areas of the US.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  11. newkoba

    newkoba Byte Poster

    144
    2
    24
    it can also depend on the state you live in. florida recently became a "make my day" state. essentially what that means is that you can use equal to slightly greater force to stop someone from harming you. if someone comes at you with a knife you can stop them by any means necessary if you feel your life may be in danger. obviously if someone breaks into your house we have been able to shoot them. if a sales man won't leave no you can't show them a gun, you can how ever make them leave, it is your property. a woman being mugged, i believe thats a sticky one that is best covered by state laws. i think in florida you can do what you need as long as you feel you are preventing someone from harming another. i could be wrong on that one though.
     
    Certifications: Security + and CEH
    WIP: CWNA and CWSP
  12. MacAllan

    MacAllan Byte Poster

    249
    6
    30
    That's twice you have referred to my supposed dislike of you. Why are you personalising this? I thought my original response to you in this thread was entirely reasonable. You asked for an anarchist to explain themselves - I'm not one, but I'm familiar enough with the philosophy to have given it a go.

    For many, god is as unreal as the tooth fairy, so consequently they are unlikely to be interested in being told to behave in a certain way because god has supposedly told them to - that doesn't mean the alternative is giving an accepting nod and a wink to murderous prowlers.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, CCNA
    WIP: CCNP, Linux+
  13. Ozzie

    Ozzie Nibble Poster

    55
    0
    18
    I was close! :biggrin

    Human nature is interesting. I've not studied it to any depth, but I find it interesting to observe the behavior of other's. This is an interesting thread.
     
    WIP: CompTIA A+

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.