Just IT recruitment

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if they can't pass the A+/N+ in a short period of self study then they have no business in IT.

We don't train N+, but you are right a lot of them pass the A+ in the first 5 weeks

They don't need your course. They arguably don't really need A+/N+ certification in most cases either. They can also use recruiters for their job hunt. What do they need to pay you thousands of pounds for ?

Look at the press and you will see that there is a real challenge out there for graduates. Many come out with very general academic degrees and have a lack of hands-on commercial experience and don't know how to sell themselves. Most recruiters can’t make money from placing graduates as there are too many out there for the number of jobs available. Supply and demand issues. If you are in the top 10% of graduates they should get on a graduate programme. If you are in the top 10-50% of graduates then you should be able to get a job yourself. If you are in the top 50-90% of graduates and not getting interviews they should be talking to Just IT. The bottom 10% of graduates perhaps regret going to Uni...

So either your screening is very good, or a bunch of people are using braindumps ?

After 10 years our screening is pretty good. I think there is some kind of assumption that most people would benefit from the programme at Just IT. It’s not true; we only train 250 people a year. This course is not for everyone. But we still make mistakes. People use Transcenders typically.

See your other point :-

You are advocating that people can get A+, N+, 270, 290 and CCNA in 3-5 months no ? In what way is that not portraying a 'Zero to Hero' approach or that CCNA is entry level

No I am not. 3-5 months to get a job in IT typically, they come back once they have some experience to do the CCNA now a days. We don't do the N+

 

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The candidates are put forward to employment opportunities as soon as we feel they are ready. When we meet tomorrow we will talk things through and then you can explain to others on certforums what the terms and conditions mean.

The CCNA is not an entry level certification, even for you with a degree and a MSc. You will not be studying this before you get a job if you did the programme at Just IT. You would study it as you wanted to move up the market from technical support to the more networking side of IT.

Yes, the chap you have found did pass all the certifications in 3 months and you can have a word with him on the phone if you want and he can explain to you how he did it. He's bright and driven and not typical - he is a lovely chap though! We did the CCNA as part of the 3 month programme at that time. Not a good idea in hindsight. Now it’s a quicker programme for people to get a job from.

See you tomorrow!

 

Fair point, he was over qualified for the role he went into initially and he did not need to do the CCNA for his first job from what I remember. Certainly we dont package the course in the same way now and the CCNA only comes in when the person has more experience in the industry. I also seem to remember when the chap did the CCNA it was easier to pass...

 

Ah I see, but looking at your site (specifically a word document) it shows that you complete the CCNA (amongst 2 other certs) before getting a job - do some of these documents require updating?

 

I have spoken with Simon a couple of times today (we both had meetings to go to so had to cut the first call short).

It's my understanding (so far) that Simons intentions are good, I have high lighted to him that in my opinion giving people certifications well before they are due is not just harming them but also us (those of us with those certifications), some clarification is needed by Simon here with regards to the timescales that he is expecting people to pass these exams in. Initially it's expected that students will pass the CCNA within 18 months of starting with him, Simon now understands that the 18 month timescale is just too short and is in the process of increasing that timeframe to 24 months. I have also been advised that the training given to people with regards to 'Server' training doesn't actually equate the the MCSA but is more in line with OTJT and what they 'could' expect to be doing with servers. I have also suggested to him that he needs to look at the N+ as a certification to offer rather than the CCNA (they don't actually offer the N+ so like others I had thought they did).

I also let him know that unfortunately for him with the way that Training Providers and IT Recruiters are viewed (not just here but in general) means that there are always going to be people who simply dislike what he is offering and nothing will change that.

He has also advised me that he will be getting a couple of other people to post here about their experiences with his company, my advice to him at that time was not just to get those who have done well by him but to also get those who feel let down by him and his company. I also suggested that his posters openly admit that they are posting on his behalf rather than just popping in and posting (which does leave everyone here feeling a tad..... uneasy, at least if they are open and upfront about it we feel a tad more relaxed to their posting).

To be fair to Simon and JustIT the fact that he is still in business when the likes of Advent have gone down the tube has to show a certain amount of business and technical acumen, if he wasn't good at his business it wouldn't be here, especially in this market.

There are many things wrong with the way Training and Recruiters work and I honestly can't see how that will change over night BUT it will change (again we see the worst providers and recruiters going out of business all the time so eventually things will change).

Most of you are aware that I have no allegiance to anyone (being a contractor), also that JustIT actually has nothing to offer me with regards to training or work. The reason I spoke with Simon is that he approached me because he wanted my opinions and advice on his business and what and where I thought things could change.

As usual the disclaimer in my sig stands.

 

Possibly - see you tomorrow.

 

I have an interview with Just IT on the 2nd December. I am 39, so I have a fair bit of life experience. I am looking forward to the meeting and hopefully the ensuing course. I have an open mind about some of the negative posts on this company, there are a lot of 20 something males who do not know what work is and expect that the trainer just get them a job all by doing the minimum amount of work possible, for them a job guarantee is just walking into a job, no effort on their part. I am not saying that these posts are from people such as this, I will find out myself.

Personally, I would like to do classroom training rather just reading the books and self studying because I believe I will get a better feel for my new occupation and new colleagues. I also think it would be very difficult indeed to get a job in support at a good company just by having taken some exams and having no experience, if Just IT will help the job searching process and have links to the industry in which they are recognised as providing quality trainees, all the better.

I have one query for Simon though which was not really explained too well on the phone, it is about the small print concerning the job guarantee. I have noted that the guarantee only comes into effect when the student has passed all the exams including the CCNA and Windows Sever 2003, which are pretty advanced from what I have been told and take at least 6 months of study, each?? Yet, the Just It web site suggests that you could be fully qualified within 8 weeks. So if one does not pass these exams, you have no money back guarantee, although you have 18 months to complete the course. This leaves me very confused. Presumably, I would be taking the entry level exams and then may return, having found a job, to retake the more specialist, difficult courses - which would be fantastic. Yet, my concern is very real as the guarantee is clearly worded... no passing of all the certificates, no money back guarantee. Simon, please can you alleviate my concern and once you have, will you change the wording in the guarantee which I would sign to contain what you will have explained? I simply can not sign with the wording as it is, as I have no come back on your prettily heavily advertised money back training scheme.

There is an ombudsman for training providers and they are pretty tough on those who buck the system, so for Just IT to have survived 10 years without being closed down, as they surely would if the negative commentators' posts were taken seriously by this body, is a positive for me in my undecided state. If you have been the victim of a scam in training or in any other way, then please complain to the ombudsman who will take your complaints seriously and will prevent others having to make the same error. Also, if you are several thousand pounds out of pocket you should do everything in your power to get the money back. Again, it makes me very suspicious that this company has been running for 10 years and with the amount of posts suggesting that its practices are dishonest then why for hell's name have you not got together and complained properly?

 

No, there isn't.

That's the problem.

 

No, they won't.

Which ombudsman were you thinking of, exactly?

 

Office of the Independent Adjudicator for Higher Education is the professional body covering complaints concerning educational institutions in the UK. Apparently. But seeing as it would be a consumer complaint too, I would have thought that there would be many other options?

 

I am sure that they would take it very, very seriously.

 

I wouldn't be so sure.
According to this page:
http://www.oiahe.org.uk/about-us/list-of-hei.aspx
it only deals with universities and not training providers.

Edit: and colleges

 

No, sorry.
TP's as a rule do not fall into the 'educational' bracket.

 

I stand corrected. That is very poor. It would have to be a consumer complaint then.

FYI.
IITT Seems to be a reputable accreditor. JustIt isn't a member though.

 

Basically the problem with TP's is that anyone can setup one up. As the guys have pointed out there aint no ombudsman for TP's and so if you get screwed then it's a costly legal battle to take to court.

 

I am looking forward to Simon's reply, an explanation concerning the question over the guarantee that I mentioned, will surely not be too difficult to resolve?

 

This has always been the problem, which is why 'scam' TPs have been able to flourish over the years.

IITT may be reputable, but ultimately it is self-serving. The ODLQC had a stab at regulation, but again was voluntary and lacked teeth.

Yes, consumer complaint is one way to go, but unfortunately as we've seen here time and time again, complaints tend to be somewhat poorly done. Writing to trading standards saying 'I was conned, they is a scam' is unlikely to get you anywhere.

There is also the financial ombudsman service if you're on a finance deal.

But the only effective regulators are the students. Do your homework, use common sense and spread the good (or bad) word in places like this.

 

they keep ringing me,

i just want to bang one of simon's employee so i keep coming back, shes fit

 

This posting is from Simon Perriton the owner of Just IT Training and Just IT Recruitment

About 3 months ago I spent a lot of time trying to communicate with people on certforums. I found it very challenging to put my point across through the site, but looking back it was a good experience and it enabled me to review the service we were offering. Whilst I think we do a lot of things well, I have made some changes and more will follow as we evolve as a company. This year we celebrate our 10th year of helping people get into the IT industry, but we can always do things better.

I have updated the FAQ's on our web site as a result of the interaction see http://www.justit.co.uk/it_training/faq for more details.

I have tried to be clear about as many things as I can, but people will pick holes in what I have written and if you are willing to give me any feedback on the Faqs directly you are welcome to on [email protected] or call me on 0207 426 9839.

I will do my best to come across as professionally as possible, but a web site is only going to be part of the picture. So as always I encourage people to visit us or talk to people who have done the programme. Some of the candidate reviews can be found here; http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews87280.html

But although the reviews are generally very positive the programme does not work for everyone and we are quite selective about the sort of people who go on the course. So call us and maybe visit us if you want to know more about whether we can help you.

Finally we have launched a new web site for Just IT Recruitment – see www.just-it-recruitment.co.uk. If you are looking for jobs and already have experience in the industry may be we can help you.

Regards
Simon