Is this just a scam ? Job guarantees / training

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No hard feelings than hogan! I'd give you a hug but we don't have a icon for it. I will have to talk to the power that be about that one.

 

I've been to ICS London, Croydon last week as well....
Could I have the private Thread for the Latest news w/ those guys pls (ICS)

thanks and hi to everyone...
nice to be here...

 

Hi Fireblade - there isn't a private thread as such. We simply requested that all interested participants in this thread communicate solely by Private Message (a kinda "internal email system" here). No one other than those involved are able to see what is said, I'm afraid.

 

Sorry for bringing this topic back up again... I am going to an interview tommorow with ICS London in Birmingham.

I've read all the posts on here and have been put off, but I am still going to go even if just for the experience of interviews etc..

Can anyone who has been to one of these ICS Interviews give me a general overview of what happens at these events?
What is the interview like?
Is the technical 'assesment' difficult and what does it involve exactly?

Any info would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

P.S Send me a private msg if you don't want to post on the forum.

 

Hiya,

Would be glad to help but we must respect the people who run this board and not fan the flames online.

If you want to ask me more about the interview etc you can e-mail me at:

martin<dot>smith<at>btinternet<dot>com

Would be glad to talk to you.

 

More info on ICS London is available here.

There is also a forum there for people to continue this conversation.

ICS is known as International Computer Systems (London) Ltd and ICS Consultancy and Development Ltd.

Hope this helps
http://ics-info.com

 

Exmatator, you'll notice I originally removed this post. However upon reflection, I have re-posted it again.

However, to ALL who read this - CertForums will not tolerate any spamming or flaming as a result of this. NO slanderous or unsubstantiated comments of any kind will be allowed on our Boards.

 

I'll second that, Gav. BTW exmatator, I hope that you have a broader interest in our little community beyond the content of your single post. Please feel free to pop up to the New Members Introduction forum and tell us a bit about yourself, your goals in IT and how you found our site.

 

I too have been sucked into this. My mcsd/dba/biztalk training has cost 8000. It is 5 months since the last course ended and I have done less than half the courses. They have failed to provide the training.

I was promised a job, as usual, and told the whole process would take 3 to 6 months. Well, it's 6 months now but I haven't been offered a job! Look at the small print in the contract - they can basically put all sorts of obstacles in your way, so that you fail to complete the 'career path' and so do not qualify for the job.

Obstacles: you MUST pass the set of exams associated with your last course before they will schedule the next.

You MUST take an internal assessment before they will schedule the next course.

If you take employment in the computer industry then you have 'left' the career path and they are no longer under any obligation.

You can choose to take your training without passing the set exams but then you are leaving the career path (and the above applies).

The training I had was very poor. An earlier response said it covered about 5% of the requirements of the exam - I would have to agree with that; you have to teach yourself, so just get the self paced training and do the lot at a fraction of the cost.

I have tried to contact them but they fail to respond; 'read receipts' on emails are not actioned. Recorded delivery mail is not replied to. They have become evasive. Only in the last week have they attempted to do anything for me (and still no courses scheduled even though I passed my last exam 10 weeks ago) and only since I threatened legal action.

Now, have any of you got any ideas as to how I can get my money back?

 

By the way, there is no regulatory body for these organisations. To be able to receive the CDL money you just have to be registered. Registration is enabled through The Learning and Skills Council, which is a government body; unfortunately, it is just an administration procedure and no vetting, other than the fact that the learning provider exists, is done.

I have been in touch with the Learning and Skills Council and would be happy to pass on their emails to anyone interested.

Bacically, you are on your own. You choose the learning establishment and you take the risk. The CDL is your debt and there is no contract between the CDL provider and the learning provider; I'm afraid that it's 'all care no responsibilty' in this scenario.

In other words "Buyer beware".

 

Hi everyone,

Newbie to here but I have hopefully been saved from a rather large fall.

I recently seen the Apprenta ads and enquired, got an interview and passed (this appears now to me after reading here and on some other sites that they say this to eveyone) so was called back again and paid a 10% deposit and signed a training agreement.

Down to my personal circumstances, I cannot take up the training until next year, I currently have CDL paperwork (not completed) and a direct line number for their new Edinburgh Office.

Now I found all the talk of them and other such like companies and am feeling very bad about it all, after aswell telling family and friends that I was moving etc etc and nearly handing in my resignation at work.

Seem to be a fine mess I have gotten MYSELF into.

Feel glad I have read the stuff on the web know.

I can answer indepth questions regarding the process via PM only.

Thanks

Liam

 

i dont mean to be mean, but "taught you to use a computer well"?
did you not at least research the certifications offered to see what they were all about before you took them on?
i would say in this case that it is not the company's fault but rather your own.

 

I looked at a local Leeds company for training , one of the VUE test centres i think it was Remark or something had a little discussion with them (not a assesment) and they didnt pressure or bombard me with calls/emails. They looked professional enough just couldn't afford the 5k or whatever so decided to go the self-study route. But the whole topic got me interested especially the bit about the students being employed to teach.

My thoughts are

1. microsoft has a trainer cert, if your trainers are not microsoft certified trainers then do you want them training you. so do not accept a previous student who managed to pass with them ASK.
2. If you have no experience then no reputable trainer should promise you a guaranteed pass in 3 months or even 3 years.
We all remember school and certain neanderthalls who couldn't pass a microsoft exam with teams of saints praying over them.
3. If you do not have the experience then the MCSE or MCSA or whatever is going to look strange to a employer they will have to take a chance on you. Some employers will pay for there staff to train but its usually existing staff.
4. for 5-6k you could take and fail each exam a fair few times with your own lab setup and the latest books. Do you need the external training or just a support network to help u a bit (as in here). I thought seriously about this and i decided that with my experience i hopefully didn't need a training course (not having the money helped the decision) BUT if i had the money they probably could have got me to PASS the exams the exams in the time they say with proper MS Certified Trainers.

Basically check them out, ask for references check the trainers Microsoft status, its your 6k not theres YET

 

I have heard that to get the job you have to pass everything and they know that you wont, and so they are under no obligation

 

Possibly a bit harshly put, but I do tend to agree.
There seems to be a common element on some of these threads where people have been wowed by promises of careers and high salaries, but aren't sure how they go about achieving these.

These people aren't selling you a career or a salary or a company car, they are selling you an IT course.
It's what you do with your newfound knowledge that gets you where you want to be.

You can't just be trained 'to use a computer' and expect an 80,000 p.a. job. What do you want to be? A programmer, a network engineer, a database analyst? If you don't know the difference, make sure the salesman explains it to you.

By the way, sorry, this isn't aimed at any one individual so please don't think I'm picking on anyone.

 

I'm not too sure as to how I view this.

Should a person have at least researched things? Yes, of course. However, when a company takes on someone who acknowledges that they don't even know how to use a computer, promises to certify them, and find them a high paying job in a short time the company the company is in a large part responsible because of their misleading advertising.

Someone outside of IT has no idea of the depth of knowledge it takes to be successful in IT. Also, the poster that this response was directed to was so unsure of what he had been sold that he didn't even realize what he was going to be "trained" in. Now, a lot of responsibility must be laid on his shoulders for his decision. But once again a reputable company should make it very plain what it is that they are selling, and they should vet applicants thoroughly so when they spend that small fortune with the company they at least have a small chance of finishing and receiving some value for their money.

There has to be at least some truth-in-advertising responsibility laid at the door of these training providers. They know what they are selling, and they also know the chances of anyone without previous knowledge successfully completing the training is between slim and none, and heavy on the none. There is a reason they put so many qualifiers into their "guarantees", and it's not to protect rank newbies from losing their money when they find themselves completely overwhelmed as the training company knew they would be when they sold the "training".

These people simply prey upon the naivety, inexperience, desperation and/or dreams of many people. I, personally, find that kind of behavior repugnant and have absolutey zero respect for it.

Is it "buyer beware"? Yes it is, but just because it is doesn't mean that any company knowingly selling a bill-of-goods should be let of the hook when they take advantage of people. There's something inherently wrong with the idea that the ones doing the preying are "innocent" and the ones preyed upon are the "guilty" ones in this.

 

by no means am i inferring that the training providers are the innocent party. i know how they work, i know they make traps for noobs with guarrantees of riches, knowing they likely won't have to see them through.

i study with a training provider that advertises the course (MCSA+E + CCNA + MCDBA) as something that anyone can do, including those without any computer knowledge whatsoever.
they do have a couple of "pre-course" days, where people will get a rundown of how to use the OS (XP) (like creating files and folders, copying, etc), hardware and networking components.
but i've seen how it is so infinitely hard for the total noobs to grasp those concepts, much less understand what the hell the teachers are talking about in the more "advanced" classes.

that isn't their fault, because the training provider told them that anyone can do it, and while that may be true, using a computer for the first time in an MCP class will hardly help them.
my training provider says "education should be open to all" which is why they say its for anyone (anyone who's got the money, that is ).
they also guarantee employment...which is why i'm sure they love to get students that likely won't pass, as they get to keep the money and don't have to fulfill their end of the deal.

however the point of my previous post is that s/he had no idea it was a programming course (something s/he had no interest in).
s/he paid over £6,000 for a course, but s/he had no idea what it was that s/he would be studying.

which is why i said it was his/her fault, because hell, before you spend that much money wouldn't it be a good idea to find out what you are spending it on?

 

hey all, i skip a few pagers on this topic, but, i want to learn, i want to pass, i want to EARN. i have no job now as i left to look into this. I have cash to spend and i have the best pc money can buy, i have 2 laptops and 2 other pcs, when you say home lab, will that do? what books we need, what programmes we need etc! ?

please help, or does this need a new topic?

 

Please post this in a new thread. You'll get more and hopefully better responses that way, since it's an entirely new subject. Thanks.