How Can I Become A Computer Programmer?

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Good on you as well!

I know a guy in the industry who only studied up to A-level, and it wouldn't surprise me if he is a better programmer than I am!

Often, though, you can tell if one really is a programmer or simply wants the 'fame' of being a programmer when they ignore posts like these. I say that to ignore the problems that make a programmer good is to ignore the possibility of being a good programmer.

 

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I don't think anyone said anything about guaranteed jobs, in fact most posters seem to agree no such thing exists in the IT field.

I just think in general its easier to pick up a trade from people who are experienced in that field and good at passing on knowledge, going to a college with good lecturers is one way of doing that. Unfortunately these days the possibility of learning on the job or an apprenticeship is not offered very often to people who haven't already proven themselves through education.

Good people come from all sorts of routes, I realise that, a good degree should just help to ensure a minimum standard, its up to the individual to prove themselves after that.

Along side the self trained gurus I have also met many self trained programmers who had massive holes in their knowledge due to no formal training and very limited self study, they had no understanding of many fundamental datastructures and algorithms, how operating systems or many types of programs work, and could only operate in a limited fashion in one high level language using an IDE.

So yes I agree with you totally the best programmers will always be those that go above and beyond to learn their profession regardless of how they receive training, if they receive any at all. In fact to create original thinkers there needs to also be an experiment and discovery aspect to learning and many teachers now recognise this. People that are self taught will often be far stronger in this area.

Likewise there is little point in being an excellent programmer if you cannot market yourself and obtain a job, again a degree is one way of doing that, there are other ways which I also often mention, create your own applications/company/website/blog, contribute to open source or enter coding challenges/competitions, etc.

This comes back to the original posters point, certifications are effectively an educational aid and a 'marketing tool', as such they have some limited use.

 

Who after few our posts didn't come back, hence I stopped posting in this thread as well.

So to catch up:
@Modey: No mate, I don't remember using it. At the stage of Turbo Pascal I was writing on the console screen and making 'Pong' type games (early starts).

The problem is exacly what dmarsh pointed out. Structured programming course will guide you through basics which otherwise you wouldn't bother to learn. For example, when I first started programming for windows (as opposed to console) you had to write helluva lot of code only to display a window. While learning that you actually got to know how it works. Now designing a GUI is mostly drag and drop task and a new starter will just carry on drag and drop + google -> copy -> paste tactic to write whatever he wants. And we end up with software which is buggy as hell because of obvious code incompatibilities.

Not to mention that OP asked for advice which certs to take to get himself started in programming. We assumed he has no experience at all. Now have a look at recent nmerrigan's posts: here, here and here and see what material is covered by those exams. This is impossible to learn by a new starter. Period.
Thing with programming is you have to understand what you're doing in full. In technical side of IT you can self-study for A+, N+ or MCDST and/or try to find 1st line helpdesk role where you will read from the script without really a clue what you're doing and take it from there (learn, certify, practice, get involved).
I used to work with a girl on a rollout contract who was made redundant from huge IT company after being on helpdesk for 2 years and she asked me to come over and install Windows on her machine.
Anyways, back on topic. All I am saying is that you can't get such an entry level job as a programmer anymore.
No one hires trainee programmers, and there's no customer facing programmer entry level role. So you must know something. Now, there is so many talented people, who as been said program since the age of 10, won numerious competitions, have a pile of code the can show off, that person without that experience, to get a job need a degree to start up.
Even more. I think that obtaining this degree by someone who is just starting will not be easy. There is just so much stuff you need to know. All those computer courses C# in 14 days or similar are same quality as "Get MCSA in 21 days" or something along the lines. It's just impossible to do, hence why degree in programming takes as long as it does.

Disclaimer: Having said that, it's obvious that having a degree will not get you a job in itself.

My thoughts anyway...

Regards
Luke

 

This is one of the reasons I signed up for some OU programming courses, because I suspected that I'd just skip the awkward stuff when self-studying

 

This is what partly attracts me to programming, the solving of problems. With the OU course I'm currently studying, we have to write programs to make an animated frog move across the screen and jump up and down . But my attitude is: how can I solve this problem; how can I make the 'frog' move x number of times then jump up and down.

 

Ha ha - yes, I really miss the OU frogs.
Hoverfrog was my favorite. Could have military applications.

 

Well I say my degree is in a non related subject but I'm aware that programming companies look for technical/analytical degrees...........not just in computing. My degree is in biology which can be very technical and analytical, especially when you get into cellular/metabolic reactions, in which, it's highly technical. So maybe a programming company might take me on with this degree?

At the moment i've only just began programming but i'm currently reading a book called " Sams teach yourself beginning programming in 24 hours". It's a really good book! Anyone read it? I'm on chapter 5 so far and i'm currently learning Liberty BASIC language, which i'm told is good for news starters.

I want to go into programming because I like problem solving and it seems like a rewarding career. I'm not currently sure what kind of programmer I want to be. Right now, Maybe Java and C++.

After i've read my Sam's teach yourself book, i'll have a good solid platform to start a entry level programming certification. I went onto the microsoft website and they said they will be retiring both MCAD and MCPD certifications, so there's no point doing those. SCJP seems like the logical start?

My plan in to get as many programming certifications as I can to build my knowledge. I would like to work for a programming company but if this is not possible then I would like to work for myself as a contract programmer and start my own software company........I wouldn't mind being a mini-Bill Gates!

Please let me know what you think!

Joe

 

Well I'm not a biologist so it's hard for me to say, certainly hard sciences are well respected by many companies, its quite possible, there may also be some overlap in nanotech, genome research or something possibly.

I'd don't generally read books with dummies in the title or 24 hours, programming is a discipline not a 24 hr fix.

Its not vital to know everything you want from your career when you start out but it may be helpful to know if you are targeting a specific industry or type of application. Otherwise a good general purpose high level language should suffice.

MCAD may have been ok, now SCJP seems the most suitable certification, although certification is not mandatory, it will at least help prove a level of proficiency and give you a study syllabus.

C++ is now more of a systems level language, you should only look at it if you want to get into developing things at a lower level or your target systems are likely to be constained.

Instead I'd advise learning different approaches, paradigms, processes etc.

If you are going to learn multiple languages I think some assembler and C does most programmers some good as well as core computer science theory like algorithms and datastructures, computer architecture, OS design, etc.

Then look into different aspects of languages and development in general, functional, procedural, object orientated, declarative, meta-programming, TDD, DDD, design paterns, refactoring, IOC, AOP, etc.

Good luck on the Bill Gates thing! I suspect you are starting a little late if you want to catch up ! Bill seems very bright indeed to have helped write a BASIC interpreter at such a young age for the Altair. However I suspect he is probably a far better businessman than he is a programmer.

 

I'm glad to see you back Joe,

Yes and it's also a niche market of some sort. For example if two of you applied for a job at NHS your degree in biology would definately help, taking both of you were equally qualified as programmers. I have seen job adverts stating that degree in biology would be a benefit in the past.

To be honest with you I don't think it is. I would say that PHP/ASP.NET (C#) would be a best place to start. Rules are the same. Both languages are C-like in syntax. Both are covered in full on the internet and amount of books and resources on the topic is just incredible. Also this would introduce you to database programming, as well as database development (creating tables etc.) as well as creating GUIs/UIs. Web applications are also in demand these days, and due to their benefits are becoming more and more popular.

Now this is totally up to you, and what I'm saying is just my opinion but:
Java, not all that great unless you want to get into mobile devices market.
C++ great, hard, tricky and used heavily in games industry.
C#/.NET/SQL mainstream - loads of resources to learn from, big demand, universal technologies, quite a few jobs around grading from junior programmers to senior architects.

You will be better off considering another book rather than certifications at this point.

As I said above. I would consider gaining bit more knowledge than "Teach yourself programming in 24 hours" before pursuing any certifications.

Good luck. This can be indeed very rewarding and enjoyable career. But please remember, there's no shortcuts.

 

It's also worth pointing out, that just like in other fields of IT. If you are over-certified compared to your level of experience, then it can hurt your job prospects, not better them.

 

All my OU courses are in java

But I have been learning some C# as well

 

Learning C# for a Java programmer is not that difficult.

Although Java's future is less certain since the buyout of Sun by Oracle, Java is still alive and well.

Java along with Python is one of Googles main development languages, it is also used a lot in various industries such as Defence, Telecoms and Banking.

I think C# is a very good bet as a general high level language for newcomers.

You also can't afford to ignore the web if you are just starting out, so a language thats popular in the web space is also a good idea.

 

This is something that I've sometimes been guilt of; emphasising certs.

I have to confess that this is one of the minor reasons for gaining the IT tech certs; there are entry level jobs

 

We've all done it.
It can't be helped - you work hard for them, and you're chuffed when you get them.

Same with learning web design.
Your first few must have every gadget known to man on them, scrolling text, a thing that follows the cursor around, a hit counter and an animated workman pronouncing 'under construction'. God, they looked awful and with experience you learn that less is more.

I've started to knock some of my certs off some of my CVs and I'm using my skills as 'nice bonuses' rather than as the core of my skills. Feels a bit weird.

 

Let's say you become competent in a particular programming language but don't have a degree and have not attempted certs; then what would you put on you CV? Skilled at C# for instance, but put more detail?

 

Yes, and ideally you would back it up with descriptions of projects etc that you had produced with the language. Even if it was part of the course you did.

 

Thats exactly what I did. Worked well enough.

 

Without complicating further , I would say , pratice few programs , pick up a technology like .Net or Java , and better start with with a beginner level course on the same . Gradually , as you move on , you would find one or the other area interesting and then can specialize in the same.

 

I use these when teaching A Level Computer Science. There is a good mixture of problems on there and they tie in well with other theories like Big O Notation and intractable problems ect..

 

Which problem do you give them to solve?