due to current IT opportunities it got me thinking about computer programming

Discussion in 'Scripting & Programming' started by Vengal, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. Vengal

    Vengal Bit Poster

    Hi currwently i am getting A+ & N+ underway due to current IT opportunities it got me thinking about computer programming

    **there so many vendor/specific/technical qualifications i.e Adobe, Microsift VB/VB.Net, java, Html..... computer programming languages that it got me confused resulting me not even considering programming as an IT career***

    which IT programming vendor technical qualification give the greatest chance in nailing ur self with in programming?

    i know some these qualifictions are suited for a particualer function, So is it true to be a computer programmer you will need to know several of these vendor programming things?

    Or will a person have a very good chance in getting nailed with something with a microsoft VB.Net?
    WIP: A+ N+
  2. BosonMichael
    Honorary Member Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    You don't need certs to become a programmer. To become a programmer, learn to program and write some code.
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  3. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

    I agree with BM. I'm a programmer, and I like to think a successful one, and I have no programming certs at all.

    On the other hand I can demonstrate plenty of examples of my work.

    You will probably have to have more than one programming language that your are proficient in - most people in the field can work well in several.

    Certifications: ECDL A+ Network+ i-Net+
    WIP: Server+
  4. Vengal

    Vengal Bit Poster

    well i have to disagree just saying u know something does not really cut it in my experience, its even more harder then when you have no experience. Either u have to meet academic grades or have vocational qualifications...

    after i finished my A+ & N+ i thinking on doing the microsoft VB.Net
    WIP: A+ N+
  5. Metalstar

    Metalstar Kilobyte Poster

    I think for jobs which are more "creative" such as programming or web design, a good portfolio showing examples of your work is usually much more interesting to potential employers/clients.

    Just because you can understand most of the words in a dictionary doesn't mean you can write a best seller :)
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: Network+
  6. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster


    I have no IT Certifications outside ITIL, and Im a software developer. In neither Development job I've been in have I even been asked about IT certifications. In fact, when I asked about funding for a Cert in either job, whilst they were willing to pay for the exam, both indicated that they didnt care a jot about certifications. I worked my way into those development jobs by gaining experience of programming, and detailing that experience.

    In the first job, I was tested on my knowledge during the interview. In the second, I was a known quantity (I had done some work for them before), so they knew my capability.

    Dont take this the wrong way, but you are disagreeing with people already in this field of IT.
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  7. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

    Take a step back and STOP listening to what Training Providers tell you. The best people I have ever worked with in this field have no IT certifications whatsoever. What they do have is a natural ability to learn, and affinity for IT and oodles of on-the-job experience. I'm guessing (though I know it to be a fact for at least two of them) that they started right at the bottom of IT as backup monkeys and worked their way up, acquiring knowledge and skills along the way. What they DIDN'T do was believe a a load of old bollocks spouted by some con-merchants with a flash website which told them they would be earning 35 grand a year as soon as they passed a frankly worthless exam.

    If you're just starting out in IT then the best advice I can give you is to start looking for a first-line job straightaway and work your way into programming from there. Your A+ and Network+ will help you in that respect. Then start teaching yourself programming (SANS do some excellent TY books for C++, Java, C~ etc that are dirt cheap) and maybe look at going to college to do an HNC/HND depending on your academic qualifications.
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  8. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

    In all the interviews I've done it wasn't just a case of saying I know something. Several times I've been handed code and asked to explain it - or to fix it. And I've also been asked questions that a good coder would know the answer to, but people with no experience would not.

    And nobody has ever asked for qualifications. Indeed, where I work at the moment is mostly a Java shop, but few people have SCJP.

    Certifications: ECDL A+ Network+ i-Net+
    WIP: Server+
  9. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    You do not need qualifications to get into most jobs they can only help but in the case of programmers I know a few well 4 actually and only one of them has a programming cert it's a Visual basic one. The others I know got into programming from a general computer course at college and they have progressed only because they are good at what they do and they have learned several languages.
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  10. LordMoolyBap

    LordMoolyBap Nibble Poster

    The MCAD and the other certs are useful but definitely no one I have worked for particularly rates them. They teach you how to do most stuff in a graphical way [bad] and also are pretty light on programming style, domain patterns and generally how to program well.

    For most programming jobs you will be asked to do a short test (normally different levels of difficulty depending on the level). The A+ N+ and whatever else are mainly hardware / Admin support quals not really usefull when writing a C# website in ASP.NET MVC. However go to www.asp.net and start doing the tutorials and get practicing to make examples bring them on your laptop to the interview as examples. As mentioned above, do the HNC/D in the evenings as well. I got my first job with a bit of experience and off the back of the HNC.

    Only one person I work with has a MS cert and it is an old VB6 one. The only thing they are worth is for raising your companies partnership status with Microsoft so the company can say they are a Gold Partner.

    Certifications: HND (Comp) MBCS
    WIP: Msc Intelligent Systems
  11. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    Don't make the mistake of letting the market place push you around too much.
    It's possible to be good at fixing hardware but find programming well beyond your comprehension, and the other way round.

    It's a bit like me saying that due to the current economic climate, I've decided to become a lawyer.
    Sure, I guess I may be able to become a lawyer after many years of training and experience - or it may turn out to be completely beyond me.

    Try and think about what you want to do and what you're good at.

    So many people join this forum and ask questions like 'which of these certs will make me richest?' or 'Which of these will get me a job?'
    That's so not what it's all about.

    Get the basics under your belt first, and see what wets your dipstick.
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  12. jo74

    jo74 Byte Poster

    I asked in a different thread whether it was possible to progress from a helpdesk job to a programming job


    And the (few) responses weren't particularly positive, though there was one forum member who had.

    I've got the A+/N+ but I'm also doing OU programming courses. And teaching myself programming.
    I had been thinking of the SCJP but having read some comments on this forum, would it just be some more 'initials' on my CV?
    Certifications: A+, N+, Sec+
  13. dmarsh

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

    Top Poster
    of the Month

    Some companies like the SCJP and it does get mentioned in some job specs, but many companies just want good programmers, they don't necessarilly like or dislike certs, it really depends on the individuals in the interview room.

    I would firstly reccommend a Degree, second maybe a HND, if you can't fit these in then SCJP is a good third bet. Obviously combining multiple qualifications covers more bases and will help you get through to more interviews. In a tough market like today you need everything you can get.

    I have a HND, Degree and the SCJP, all of them definitely helped in my applications for various positions.

    The SCJP is more than just initials in my mind for those without any formal training, because it teaches real fundamental skills and deep understanding of the Java language. If you are serious about becoming a Java programmer you will find this information useful for many years to come. More general priciples of number systems, data encodings, algorithms, data structures, design, OO, etc you will likely find useful for the rest of your career.

    If I had to pick two pieces of paper I have that represent some of the most useful stuff I've learnt would pick my HND and my SCJP, and I have many pieces of paper. If I had to pick what generally impresses most and has highest status I would pick my degree.

    Of course I also have no pieces of paper or certs for many things I've learnt, including 20+ languages, frameworks and technologies. Both paths are equally valid. I think the SCJP will provide useful structure if you wish to learn a language and are not sure how to go about it, if you're confident enough to go on your own way, feel free to pick and choose your own subjects to study.

    Personally I took the SCJP because I was a seasoned C++ programmer but knew some people would not take me seriously as a Java programmer since on paper I was 'only' a C++ programmer. This despite the language similarities, the fact I could code in many languages even before I learnt C++ or Java and the fact that I had trained myself in Java. People tend to be too eager to pigeonhole people, it used to be you were a 'Software Engineer' and could cross train without issue, its harder now to get a look in without all the exact buzzwords etc. Certs and recruiters are key parts of the problem in my mind.

    Unfortunately recruitment seems to be becoming more rigid, employers like pieces of paper to make them feel they are making a good hiring decision. So in general at least a couple of pieces of paper are going to help. Many people just do not know how to interview for tech positions, they tend to either totally overdo it or under do it, ultimately your best bet may be to avoid the traditional interview altogether. There are alternative methods, if you create really cool apps, have a reputation in the Open Source community, write a good blog etc, these can all be used to help publicise you and your skills.

    I've never worked on helpdesk so I did not comment on your other thread. I took a HND then degree and then made 100+ applications until I got my first break with a junior programming role. That was around 15 years ago. I also know people who have broken into programming roles from many different backgrounds, but they also did it 10+ years ago. There seems to be a lot of people about with various qualifications these days, personally I wouldn't want to be fighting for jobs without any quals or experience.

    I see no reason why someone from helpdesk could not become a developer, I know people with music degrees who are now very talented developers, just realise that becoming a developer takes a lot of work and the skillsets of a helpdesk role are not totally related.
  14. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

    Thats exactly what I did.
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  15. piccadilly

    piccadilly Byte Poster

    Hi Vengal

    I recommend you read a book called The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Second Edition) [http://www.amazon.com/Career-Progra...sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239805077&sr=1-1].

    It's a good insight into the world of the programmer. It's also a really nice read, though edges somewhat to the US (sometimes the writing feels like fiction; Dilbert crossed over with Coupland's JPod) but understandably so.

    Good Luck.
  16. Mathematix

    Mathematix Megabyte Poster

    Certifications: BSc(Hons) Comp Sci, BCS Award of Merit
    WIP: Not doing certs. Computer geek.

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