Career going down the tubes

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OP no offense by this but its really useful to see people like in your situation, its good to understand the state of the job market and predictions.

Perhaps it would be good to go down the more generic route of things. e.g. Project Management/Teaching? rather than specialism which limits your options a hell of allot perhaps?

 

Sure there would. They'd get a desktop admin job, then certify to reflect their experience... then a systems admin job, then certify to reflect their experience... and so on... just like many people do today.

Sure, some people get certified before getting experience... but that doesn't mean employers hire them for those jobs. I should know; I've been on the hiring side of the desk for the last few years.

Good luck with that, particularly when there are people out there WITH experience who are looking for work. Plus, employers got burnt by hiring the MCSE-and-no-experience folks years ago... they're not gonna fall for the same mistake again.

Then what's the point of getting certified on upper-level certifications if you're gonna take a more junior job? Isn't your plan to get certified so you can switch tracks instead of taking a more junior job?

Disagree if you want to, Sly... I'm just trying to help you out by giving you the viewpoint from the employer's side.

 

That's not good especially in this tight and bleak economic situation can't afford to be out of any job be it IT or not.

I think you made the choice and might have to live with the the outcome, walking out of a job because management was a joke and on 36K doing 2nd line support?. Well you alone know if it was the best of choices to make.

No offence or pun intended but you must have a fat bank account to do that. Well not wanting to over dramatise things, best wishes and remember regardless of whichever field of career you find yourself it would not be easy.

Just keep on keeping on and hope you find something else soon.

 

I appreciate your input Michael but have to say unless your lucky and work for a company that will allow you to progress your skills then your limited as in my opinion most companies now want people with the certs before they allow them to touch say an Oracle database. Maybe I've just been unlucky with previous jobs as not one of them pushed me to expand my skills.

 

I do have money in the bank for this situation and also have insurance so my bills are covered and my wife works. The job was a joke and I would never walk out on a whim. I held several conversations with the company and nothing changed and I couldn't handle it anymore after 3 months so left. There is more to money like job satisfaction but yeah I wouldn't really want to be out of work and if it wasn't for the insurance I would still be there. In the long run 2nd line IMO is going to become redundant in the near future so I see this as an opportunity to change direction before it's really too late to do it. I've done 2nd line for over 7 years so need a change.

 

I have yet to work for a company that promoted me up the chain. Every one of my advances came because I 1) learned on the job on my own and 2) left the company for a more advanced job. That's not luck, Sly... that's drive and determination. *My employer* isn't responsible for progressing my skills... *I* am responsible for progressing my skills.

Find me a company that will give you an Oracle DBA job with a cert and no experience, and I'll eat my hat. If you want to get into Oracle, become a server admin at a place that uses Oracle and ask to assist the Oracle DBA there. Then, when you get some experience helping out with the administration, get certified and get a proper Oracle DBA job - where you can proudly say to the prospective employer, "Yes, I have experience administering Oracle."

 

I'm not having a go at all so please don't take it that way. However no income protection insurance I've ever heard of covers someone making them selves unemployed.

 

I'm with Michael, it's not anyone elses responsibility to get certified but yours, lets be fair here, companies have the ability to pick and choose who they hire, if they can get away without paying for training costs they will do.
When ever I have been permy I always chose my own career path and certifications, it wasn't anyone elses decision which way I went but my own and because of that I am where I am now.

I also know for a fact that people with certs and no experience don't last in those jobs, I have seen it time and again. One thing you really need to be aware of is that whilst 'certs' are a requirement, it's usually a requirement from a HR perspective rather than a technical one (unless you're being hired to fill out Partner requirements).

If I were you I would check your insurance because I think you will find they would only pay out if you were fired\lost your job rather than just 'walked'.
IMO 2nd line isn't going to end in the near future, just like 1st line\ service desk isn't. It doesn't even end because of outsourcing.

My wife is stuck in a job she doesn't like, constantly moans about the fact that management don't understand things and because of that the clients moan at her, but 4 years down she is still there, why? because it pays well and at the end of the day it's just a job, she knows that she would have to work a hell of a lot harder and longer to get anywhere near the same salary as she is on now so she just grins and bears it.

As far as doing 2nd line for 7 years goes, man you really do need to push yourself, 7 years doing the same old thing? where is your get up and go, your desire to improve yourself? 'IF' I had been doing the same level of job for 7 years I would hope that it was as IT Director, not bloody 2nd line. You really need a kick up the arse, and I hate to say it but you may well find you get it now.

As far as the money in the bank goes, look long and hard at what you spend on because it goes quicker than you would imagine (having only worked 3 months out of the last 9 I can attest to that).

 

Well then no complains as no management is perfect, looks like contracting might suit your needs best. To be honest 2nd line support roles are always going to be even if it's not that much being advertised etc. I don't mean to challenge your decision as it's your life and issue just paying my humble worth of opinion.

I'd say no pun or offence intended. Cheerio

 

Can we not beat the guy up?
Right or wrong, he's made his decision and has now asked if any of us have any constructive ideas on how to move forward...

 

Not beating him up... after all, I did say, "what's done is done." However, it would be unfortunate if he added to his own problems by getting overcertified and expecting that to change his path. And that's why I gave the advice I did... not to beat him up, but to help him take the most stable route to the position he wants.

 

My insurance is from my last full time job which I was made unemployed from. This job was a contract so seen as temporary.

 

Michael I'm not overcertified mate I've worked in IT for over 7 years so I don't think having an MCSA and the other certs is being over certified for what I did so don't see your point on that. The mistake I've made is not moving on from what I've done for years and I'm still doing what I did from day one albeit a little bit more in depth and better paid. I also made the mistake of making my certs generic in that loads of people have my skills. I don't mean to be rude as I appreciate taking the time to reply but sometimes you can be blinkered in your view. Not everything is black and white and straight forward. I disagree in that it's not a companies responsibility to progress your skills. If they want their staff to be competent then they need to invest in their staff. I also agree that the employee needs to do their bit as well.

As for people saying why I left my job. I spent a lot of time and thought and trying to sort it out with management before I left. I didn't just walk out. All I can say is the job was possibly dealing with life and death of the people I was supporting and I wasn't going to put myself into that position if I wasn't trained.

Can we please get back to the subject I'm after advice not criticism. Thanks for the helpfull replies so far guys

 

I still think your insurance will welch, you still walked, whether it was a contract or not.

 

They are paying me as I said before the insurance was for another job I was made redundant from and I took this contract with the support of the insurance and it's classed as temp work as the aim is to get you back into fulltime work.

 

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I think putting enterprise level monitoring tools like SCE 2010 and whatever else in effectively could be a valuable party piece for the CV In the near future if it isn't already. Does anyone think that having the ability to put measures in place that are preventive rather than reactive, having VHDs of all machine so that they can brought up again in minutes and whatnot is one of the more important things to have knowledge of?

In a 5 years experience fixing XYZ vs 3 years of fixing XYZ but the skills to monitor and prevent incidents from occurring kind of way.

 

Cheers mate not a bad idea to bulk out my CV. I think what I may do is to stick to doing Exchange 2007 exam in 6 weeks as planned and then ITIL, PRINCE2 course and then Sharepoint. After reading more on Sharepoint and doing the Exchange exam prep it looks like Sharepoint is going to be big in the near future. I have to face facts doing what I'm doing now is pointless for my long term career.

 

Working in IT for 7 years - or 20 years - is irrelevant. WHAT you've been doing for those 7 years is what is important. If you've got 6 months of server administration experience, by all means, pursue the MCSA. But if you've not been doing server administration, then the MCSA would make you overcertified for your experience level. Not your "number of years in IT" level. Those are two completely different things.

But that said, you were talking about Oracle and Sharepoint certifications to bust you out of 2nd line, were you not? THAT is what I was addressing about being overcertified... because you lack experience with Oracle and Sharepoint.

Then you will continue to have an unrealistic viewpoint about what most companies are going to do for you. The company's responsibility is to be profitable. The company's expectations of you is to do your job and to do it well... NOT train you to do a job for which you aren't hired.

Now, if the company is thinking about implementing Sharepoint, and that's something that THEY want you to administer, then YES, the company SHOULD (and usually WILL) train you up to learn that package. But if you're a desktop admin, and they DON'T need someone to help administer servers, then it's not THEIR responsibility to train you up in server administration. Understand what I'm saying?

 

I'm not going to argue with you but I disagree with most of your points and we will leave it at that.