Braindumps?

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Thanks very much Ryan

I read that statement and I must confess it can be interpreted in a number of ways. It's just that this forum is very pro self study and what you said at first appeared to be a bit of a swipe at those who choose to do that, jsut wanted to make sure mate.

I agree with you entirely, it is certainly not impossible to read a book, literally learn what you need to get a piece of paper that says you can do something and then claim to be an expert, which I do think is a sad state of affairs, but that kind of carry on is rife in any industry.

I work in media production and have seen people who claim to be able to produce an entire 4-colour brochure from scratch yet can barely type their name in Word, all based on some C&G or something or other in DTP (which is not worth a great deal). One girl I saw was asked to measure the size of a document before going to press. She was asked to leave the job shortly after she was found holding a ruler up to her monitor.

 

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LOL!!

 

Its important we dont automatically associate 'reading a book and passing' as the same thing as self-study

with the growth of virtualisation technologies today i would hazard a guess that most of us here get MORE hands on work at self study than we do on a course where an instructor reads a book out loud (yes, some are that bad)

You will never see me having a swipe at the self study folks, i learn best by doing it off my own back and have been studying that way for the last five years. I have all the time in the world for that kind of dedication

Glad i could clear that up


Johnny dont worry mate, wasnt directing the response at your perticular circumstaces, just your post

 

No worries!

It does raise some interesting questions about education and study in general.
I'm in danger of going off topic here - but how many of you have done a course at whatever level that ultimately isn't worth jack?

I passed GCSE French. To this day I wouldn't say I spoke French.

I got a degree in Civil Engineering, and made a complete mess of our patio. In three years we made concrete once - and that was under lab conditions, not on a site with a bucket and hosepipe with our bum cracks showing.

The Germans have an intersting higher education system where they identify those who are unlikely to be the rocket scientists of the future and don't make them waste their time on lots of complicated exams. They show them how to hold a broom and how to unblock a sink.

Fair play.

Anyway, sorry.

 

Hey, hey, HEY!!! What are you tryin' to imply? huh? HUH???

 

Your statement there and what Ryan is getting out, are these kind of people as we refer to them in the states are paper certs. The cert is all they have, because the exp, and knowledge isn't there.

Lets use BBM as an example. He has just about every cert you can imagine behind his name.Which is expected for the field he is in. MS, Ciscos, Certix, ect, ect. Now the differences between him and a paper cert is that he can actually apply his certs out in the field. He knows what he is doing he has the hands on to know what the steps will be from beginning to end of a project. If something goes with something, he will have some idea of what is going on and what needs to be looked at or tried to fix the problem. Paper certs people are sitting there going this wasn't on the test or in my book what do I do now? They do not realize there may be more than one way to handle a situation. And most can't even apply what they have read. These people kill the cert rep, make your paycheck go down and just in general make your life in the IT world harder. It one thing to talk it another to walk it. So I say yeah to Ryan for standing up for the integrity of his certs! If we don't protect us ourselves no one will. Keep the good fight up Ryan and Sandy.

And to Johnny.

It called ethics johnny, and any tech worth his salt lives by those codes. Those that don't shouldn't be in our field. Nor do they desever to be. They hurt us all.

 

You're so sweet to me.

But I must admit... I've never administered Oracle in a live environment. That being said, I did have to learn it awful darn quick to have to jump in to writing the Fundamentals II exam before passing either SQL or Fundamentals I!

 

There are two truths about techs who use braindumps:
1) If they know what they're doing... they don't need a dump.
2) If they need a dump... then they're not ready to hold the certification.

Period.

Stating that they don't have time to do a re-sit is an invalid excuse, made simply to rationalize their behavior... to make it feel "okay" or justified for them to cheat. Uh-uh... that doesn't fly, my friend.

 

I too am one of the poor sods that was suckered into using them advised by a particular vendor and trainer no doubt.

Kinda suprised though to see that including me only 3 people admit to having used them and 28 say they haven't not the figures i would have expected at all.

Come on guys be more honest!

I've heard of one particular vendors own staff using them just to get the certs as well.

Never again!

This is why im up late on a Friday night studying for my ARCH the correct way, not using such material as TK or other well known dumps.

(kinda like the term DUMPS, rather fitting for the environment that they should be used hehe )

 

Oh No Not another thread about Braindumps

I think we should or members who post threads about BD's

 

Um,

did you read the post before replying UCM?
as you can see Ka151 has no love for braindumps, and this is an existing thread
i'd also like to highlight that discussions such as this only go toward strengthening our members understanding of them and why they are big no no's
its important that that message get across to new people to an industry where crap trainers compensate for thier substandard training by giving and directing students to use such material

 

Er, i agree with Mr Movie Production Studio (who has a big cam but no pics!)...

 

Well it seems that I missed this thread a while ago.

For starters, you'll only get the people that are against BD's posting on this thread. Think about it, if I piped up and said I used them I'd look pretty stupid, yes?

Secondly, paper certs!! I'd say that maybe 5% of the current members here are cert'd up the proper way, that is, 1-3 years experience and then the exam.... the rest of us have paper certs no matter which we try to put the spin on it.

Let me explain...when I look at the way I've gained some of my certs then I can truthfully say that I'm paper cert'd on 290. I did the MOC course with a training provider, read 3 books, installed it numerous times as virtual machines and used it as a desktop OS for a year. I took the exam twice and passed the second time. No 'live' experience at all apart from what I have invested in my lab environment.

The problem is this makes me a paper cert under all your definitions as I don't have any 'real world' experience. Not all of us are so lucky that we can do it the right way.

This doesn't mean that 'we' don't know anything though. Last night I was setting up our new servers (1 SuSE linux and 1 Win 2K3) with our IT professional and we had trouble getting through to the net. When we were going through all the possible areas that were likely to be the problem I realised that he had set the firewall to look to the outside network server for DNS resolution and the win2K3 server was looking to itself for DNS forwarding.

After 20 minutes of me telling him that I thought this was the problem he finally twigged and set it right and we had an internet connection. So much for someone with 8 years experience in a 'live' environment.

Sorry if I got a little off track. It's a typical catch 22 situation, I'd be a liar if I said I didn't and stupid if I said I did!! That's why you'll only get the honest ones replying here.

 

Actually, most of you will be shocked to learn that my attitude toward braindumps is starting to mellow (somewhat).

Now hold on, hold on! Don't start reaching for the noose for me just yet - hear me out!

Since the industry seems to be changing a bit - certainly not as many braindumpers coming in to interview for the last two jobs we've advertised - I genuinely believe the 'gold rush' of clueless tosspots with MCSEs is on the wane. If braindumpers are going to become less prevalent, then perhaps Ryan's points earlier about people using them just to pass exams because their employer tells them they have to is a valid one.

Take me for example. I just plain couldn't be arsed to renew my MCSE 2K with the upgrade exam and have now missed the boat as the exam's been retired. If I want to leave and work for a totally 2K3 shop - even though I could do the job standing on my head, and could (probably) get close to passing the 2K3 MCSE without much studying (apart from the 2K3 version of Network Inf no doubt!) it would still be a LOT of grief for me to pass the necessary exams - take me lots of time and cost me no small sum of money to do so - and thats provided I passed all the exams first time.

Its even more unfair for Cisco-oriented peeps, as the certs expire every two (or three, can't remember) years. That just seems like a huge cash cow TBH, and its certainly unfair to make people who are already working in a stressful, high turnover industry to pass exams again and again.

My overall opinion of braindumpers is still that they are dirty, stinking cheats. However, I am starting to see Ryan's viewpoint more.

Please don't hurt me!

 

And that is exactly why your not a paper cert Nugg. You have messed with it in a lab. You do have hands on exp even if it isn't in the field. You have not just sat down and read a book and stolen test questions and passed the exam. You do actually know about it. There is a big different.

 

I agree with Mitz Nuggy

a paper cert is not all about real world experiance, its about practical experiance
there are people who just read the exam guide and pass it, those are paper certs

 

The last few posts have made my eyes pop out! I would have agreed with nugg and said along with me we paper certified cause we have little or no experience with the Server 2k3 product enviroment. Yes we had labs and pc's running 24-7 but there was so much you could do in our labs yet 99% of the problems we would not have discovered because e didnt have live users. I wish i really could get some experience soon with what i have learnt in my MCSA studies because i feel i have learnt a lot of what i need to get a small AD network up and running - and only then will i know where i need to learn more in.

Another point i want to bring up is this:

Microsoft in ALL their exams and certification requirements say the IT pro must have x years experience and maintaining networks with hundreds and sometimes over 2000 users?? How many people taking MCSE today is going to have that kind of experience? Surely MS has to realise its MCSA and MCSE certs are no longer the premium certs on the market so newbies are going to take them and start from the the bottom and learn the product and very often wont have all that knowledge MS assumes you have - so im my mind MS is also to blame a little.

JMO (me runs and hides now....)

 

I 'm not having ago at Ka151, but not happy by his referrence on people are not being honest with themselves when voting.

Or at least that's how i interrupt his answer.

The problem is not many people know about braindumps until they read about on these type of forums.

We should not be asking if people have used them we should be pointing out the disadvantages of using them and helping the people who are considering to use or have been instructed by their managers to use them.

It's time to stop asking who or why, and time to start helping members/people by pointing out what the dangers are!

Now I look at my last post! I can see it was over the top, but then again I was drinking beer that night.

So if I have offended Ka151 I appolgise now

 

Didn't Phoenix tell you? he forgot to put some batteries in his camera when he took those pictures