Another SkillsTrain noob

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by M!cook, Nov 2, 2005.

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  1. moominboy

    moominboy Gigabyte Poster

    just my 2 pence folks but the guy who came to see me was actually a really nice salesman....

    he was trying his darndest to sign me up to save me money! around £500 pound saving if i said yes that week because he could only keep the lower price for a short period.

    how many salesmen would put there neck out for the customer nowadays?

    i said no though....... :dry :tongue


    EDIT: try here (clickable link) mate for some well recommended books by mike meyers.

    other than that read through the a+ forums here! good luck!
     
    Certifications: ECDL
    WIP: A+
  2. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    i am studying with a training provider and (at least with mine) its easily 90% self-teaching. sure, there are the classes that break you in to the subject, thats good, but then i have to go home and study hard.
    i figure i could do just as well without them (the company), but they are useful for putting pressure on me (time limit) so that i dont get lazy. plus they should help me break in to the IT world (first (IT) job).
     
    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  3. OmegaA

    OmegaA New Member

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    Hello, everybody,

    Sorry for intrusion, I just registered on the forum because I am a bit in rush.

    My wife signed up for the Skills Train course today. Well, the main thing which made us make this decision was LiveLabs. I found a bit of information on LiveLabs on internet.

    When I listened to the salesman from Skills Train, he said that LiveLabs gives experience similar to real live. There is a dilemma in network engineering, salesman said: you cannot get experience unless you work in networks, and nobody will give you a job in networks unless you have experience. Here LiveLabs comes. If you listen to Skills Train's advertisement on their website (http://www.skillstrain.co.uk/) it says the following: "Exclusive to schools in the UK LiveLabs, the only acceptible alternative to real world experience". The salesman went even further. He said the experience on LiveLabs is usually counted as 12-18 months of practical experience by employers who deal with network engineers. So, since other people did not use LiveLabs on their training, their training is more academic learnt from books, while yours is more practical, and this what employers want. You easily stand out from the crowd and you get employed. Therefore people trained by Skills Train usually find a job in 2 months after completing the course.

    Then I talked to my friend who was network engineer. He said that LiveLabs was developed long time ago and it is not counted as any experience, you will still have to find a way to do it. Also, it is not exclusive, it is in many colleges and schools in th world. LiveLabs is very simple and cannot give you proper training (he has 7 years of experience on networks, but not in the UK). He found a course to get to CCNP, but it should take him 2 years and cost about £550/year.

    Therefore I have a question: so, this LiveLabs, does it really gives the edge, or just advertisement? The add on the website says directly that LiveLabs is the only acceptible alternative to real world experience. Is it true? I do not mind paying extra £2000 if my wife will have a job at the end of the course (by the way, salesman gave me a paper which says that if my wife will not find a permanent job as Network Engineer within 2 months after she completes the course, Skills Train will start refunding her money - it is done in stages because she still can find a job, so if she finds, then they will stop refunding, otherwise it will be refunded in 12 months).

    Also, my wife already has A+, but she wants to get to CCNP, so I think it will take her at least 2 years to get there, but we have to pay for 35 months, so I will have third on money not paid out before we finish the course and she should find a job. This seems to reduce the risk.

    I still do not know to cancel or not. Do you know if LiveLabs makes such a big difference?

    Regards,
     
  4. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    I know of no lab, no school, no software, that is viewed by employers the same as time spent working in a real world environment, i.e. experience.

    You are being sold a bill of goods in my estimation. But, you've already been told this once by someone you said was a friend of yours and you don't seem to want to believe him either. Why ask strangers when someone you say is a friend who works in IT tells you the claim isn't true?
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  5. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    I have to agree with what freddy says here.

    There is no alternative to real hands on experience. Even if you do study in your own home labs and gain experience that way employers will still consider you to not have the experience.

    Why? because there is a whole other element that gets added when you are in a real network under pressure to get something to work that you simply can not replicate in a lab.

    Welcome to CF BTW! :biggrin
     
  6. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    That would be the end users :twisted:

    Have any of you UK based guys heard of LiveLabs or not?

    Pete
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  7. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    I haven't. 8)
     
  8. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    nope, nor has any employer I've ever dealt with mentioned them. Its a swizz.. as freddy said, experience is what counts, not simulations.
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  9. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    'Livelabs' is their tag on simulations - I'm pretty sure Skillstrain have a centre you go to (for some reason I want to say in Birmingham) for you to practise. But even with this experience, it's to help you pass the exam, really. I am under the impression that most companies won't let you anywhere near their switches without a few years experience - at least at CCNA level.

    These simulations should be part of the course - some people have their own home labs (Freddy - I think) others go to course - provided ones. My friend did CCNA as part of a degree course, and have 'LiveLabs' at her Uni campus.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  10. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    Speaking for myself. I found working in a real "live" office with problems a huge benefit. Not only do you get the real problems as they happen but you also get the people side of it too.
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  11. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    agreed.

    and sims don't simulate the stupidities that people can implant in a system.. they don't simulate the bad infrastructures etc that exist... and so on...
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  12. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    True, and they don't simulate the heckling and harassment that users can give you when you are pulling your hair out trying to find out why a Windows machine won't print and the error message is *unknown network problem* :eek:
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  13. OmegaA

    OmegaA New Member

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    Found the following information on internet:

    Skillstrain is in association with Scheidegger. They have CCNA and CCNP courses
    http://www.skillstrain.co.uk/

    Scheidegger is marketing company. They sell Toolwire training course http://www.toolwire.com/alliances/resellers_distributors .

    Through CISCO's website you can find that Toolwire is their Learning Partner, use this site: http://tools.cisco.com/E-Learning-IT/LPCM/pub_jsp/ll/LpcmLLSearchForm.jsp (select "learning partner").

    Let's continue further: This website says that Cisco demands that Learning Partner maintain high quality of training and CISCO makes sure it happens: http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le27/learning_partner_about_learning_partners.html

    So, what is so special about Toolwire? It is LiveLabs. I was wondering: if LiveLabs is such a great thing, why not every single Cisoc training centre is using it if it belongs to Cisco? Perhaps, I am wrong, it cannot be a property of CISCO then. That is right, Toolwire owns LiveLabs! http://www.toolwire.com/solutions/livelabs_it

    This website says that "LiveLabs for Cisco and Microsoft are considered the best learning tools in the industry today". Read further there section "Obtain Industry-Recognized Certifications":

    "Over 15,000 LiveLab students have obtained certifications with the help of LiveLabs. LiveLab exercises are built around official course objectives from Cisco and Microsoft and map to the latest certification curriculum. As certifications move towards assessing mastery of skills rather than mastery of concepts, LiveLabs fill the void by putting required concepts to use in practical applications. LiveLabs users have the highest pass rates for Cisco (CCNA and CCNP) and Microsoft (MCSA and MCSE) certification".

    Now I am thinking: CISCO makes sure that these Training Partners do not lie and give all information correct. Cisco, as I understand, is responsible for their Training Partners. However, Toolwire says that their LiveLabs users have the highest pass rates for Cisco certification and "LiveLabs for Cisco ... are considered the best learning tools in the industry today". I see that Toolwire made a very strong statements here for which it can be prosecuted if they are wrong. And they still keep them on their website. And Cisco does nothing about it. Is it a scam then that you will increase your pass rate if you study in Skilltrain-Toolwire training programme? If it is then how Toolwire manages to be Cisco's Training Partner? Toolwire did not start its training just recently, it was available for a while already. Plus, Cisco would not put a rubbish training company into its list of Training Partners.

    Well, there are a few more other distributors of toolwire training programme, not only Skillstrain, you can find the other on internet.

    Your comments? Just would like to make sure I checked everything, otherwide it might be an expensive mistake (Actually, now I am trying to find some feedback on Toolwire training, but so far none)...

    Any feedback on Toolwire?

    P.S.: I tried to find negative feedback about Skillstrain or Scheidegger from people who at least started the course, but so far only this one - it is not really related to the course contend, but to the financial side http://www.ciao.co.uk/Scheidegger__Review_5471531
    And there are several courses that offer Toolwire training, not only Skilstrain! http://www.toolwire.com/alliances/resellers_distributors

    Regards,
     
  14. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  15. OmegaA

    OmegaA New Member

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  16. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    you said you were looking for feedback, i gave you some links.
     
    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  17. dee1810

    dee1810 Byte Poster

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    I really do appreciate your point of view, but I haven't had any problems at all with Scheidegger.
    i didn't feel "fast shuffled" into signing anything at all. My experience was absolutely what I expected of them.

    I did see other peoples's comments about how they had been "bullied?" into signing a contract. No-one can make you sign something that you don't want to sign.

    these comments were just after BBC Watchdog did a report about a computer training company that didn't exist were ripping people off. Do say that I panicked is putting it mildly.
    So I asked to speak to "top brass" at my training company, and I also had a friend run a check to make sure that they are a real company and my confidence and faith was justified.
    The bottom line is that "you can't please everyone".

    I wanted a step onto a very big ladder, I really don't mind that I have to start at the bottom and work at it. I don't expect to get anything for nothing. If my course had been very cheap, it would have put me STRAIGHT off.

    I'm sorry that you have had a bad time, but I have been treated very well, and I will defend a company that has always given me upmost respect.
     
    Certifications: Foundations, Site Designer & JavaScript
    WIP: Server Admin, and Perl
  18. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    It's a fact of life.
    You can't please all the people all the time.
    It's how you react that says a lot about you.

    I had a look at some of the links on this thread. It's amazing how many people pay money for somthing they don't understand, hold frankly unrealistic expectations and then throw all their toys out of the cot when the going gets tough. Yeah, I was conned, nobody told me I'd have to do any work.
    You weren't conned, you did something stupid.

    I can't really comment on Scheidegger, but I'm sure that all the people working there have bills to pay and kids to feed. You can't buy a new car, drive around in it for three months then take it back expecting a full refund because you've now decided you want an automatic, or a different brand!

    I don't really care either way. I have used a training provider in the past so I know the score to an extent. We live in a refund culture at the moment.
    I used to work in retail and it was amazing. People would buy a tin of paint, slop a bit on the wall then bring it back for a refund because they didn't like the colour. Whose fault is that?
    But it's not a lot of money, so you generally get away with it as an act of goodwill.

    Try ordering a custom made bathroom suite then cancelling the order the week after it is delivered. See how far you get.
    (actually, that's an example, don't try it at home.)

    Rant over.

    edit: I'm being generic here, please don't assume I'm aiming this at a single individual.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  19. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    i dont know the company, but i guess you could say that the disgruntled are a minority - but a very loud one. :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  20. IT 2005

    IT 2005 Bit Poster

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    Hi

    If they have said something or done something it forms part of the comntract , if you are not happy get advice from some frm like ************** i did and won

    there are rubbish training providers out there who ar ecrooks and will take you on say an mcse knowing you wont finish it so they keep 7x £125 exam costs plus all the other profits, its a scam sue and win your money back :D
     

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