Advent Training

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self study means you get the books and study and practice on your own in your house.


when you are ready for the exam you register with pearsonvue on their website you will find the nearest 5 exam centers. You can pay pearsonvue directly through their site for each exam or you can buy discount vouchers from www.gracetechsolutions.com and use the voucher codes as payment on the pearsonvue site,

compTIA A+ all in one exam guide 6th edition is the best book for 600 series A+ exams however if you are planning on doing the newer A+ exams you will need to wait until his new book is out in Feb.

The current 600 series A+ exams retire in August in the UK however that doesn't mean you have to do the new exams.

 

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Steady on tiger.

What you have to realise is that anything said here is going to be a generalisation and not aimed at one particular individual, unless the poster says it is.

I started out with a training provider, and I don't consider myself a fool either. But a lot of us here have the benefit of hindsight and experience which is why we feel able to say the things we do.

Advent had over 6,000 students, all of whom joined for different reasons. The law of averages says that most of them - not all of them - joined for the wrong ones. Take a look at an advert for a TP in your local paper. Does it say 'Get your head around IP addressing' or 'become skilled at server administration'? No. They all say 'start earning £35k' or 'make your dreams a reality' or 'for a great future, and a BMW'. They also tend to appear mixed in with the job ads where they know that desperate people who quite fancy their dreams becoming reality will be looking.

We've seen hundreds of examples here of students who can't type in English who are battling their way through an MCSE, people who have no interest in IT doing a CCNA and quite a lot of people who don't actually know what they're doing, despite having been doing it for two years. Microsoft Certified Web Designer? Yup, that sounds about right. And why are these people doing the course? Pound signs.

I quite agree with your sentiments that, when starting out, the provision of a mentor who will guide you every step of the way, a tutor to explain things you don't understand amd an admin bod to book your exams if you don't know how to is all very appealing to someone. That's how TPs exist.

The problem is, in almost every single example these promises don't come to pass and all the student ends up with is a pile of books and a phone number. You admit that their responses could have been quicker. That's because they don't really want to talk to you. There's probably one tutor for every fifty salesmen, and they're too busy making up testimonials for their brochures to help students.

That's why we say what we do.

 

Dan,

Everyone has a different situation.. I was with Advent, at the time when you know nothing about the IT Industry and at a grand old age of 19 - didn't want to goto uni and had an average job (not a career prospect though) Advent seems like a good safety blanket, it was only when I started to learn more and discover places like Certforums that you question the TP - what do they actually do!? Luckily I landed a trainee computer system engineer job and they took over the whole deal so the blow isn't so bad... But back to the point, I think alot of people feel safer knowing there with a TP, paying money towards something can make people motivated - feels more legitimate, the amount of times i've wanted to learn something without have to pay fees and i've never got anywhere with it.. For the inexperienced is so easy to fall into going with a TP. However now looking back if I only knew then i wouldn't have gone with a TP - infact now that Advent have gone bust, i'm going to go it alone to complete the MCSE.

 

Well said jonny, reppage for you

@Benny There are more people who go into IT because of the lure of this mythical big salary. We had a guy on here a while back (wont mention his name) who was asking what certs he should do after the A+ because he had to earn 30k a year.

Turns out he failed his A+ twice and has never come back, but it is these sorts of people who have brought the IT industry down and the wages too.

 

I see what your saying, but it only seems better to go with a TP because of not knowing how easy self study can be. The internet has many more able minded and accessible people to ask questions than a TP could ever dream of providing. I'd say it's also a good way to find out if you are cut out for working in IT. Once your in, you're not going to have a mentor.

 

Benny,

First of all, I want to say this isn't intended to kick you whilst you are down, but an obsersavation from working with a TP and a member of CF for several years.

This (the quote above) is the exact reason most people sign up with a training provider in the first place. As someone new to the area and the fact you want to make a career out of it makes it even more of a minefield and wouldn't it be great if it were possible to just "pay someone to take care of everything for you"?
It is music to the ears of the salespeople (sorry, course advisor) when using negative motavation on their potential sales. Negative motivation is one of the techniques used when selling training courses. All the facts gathered about the person is turned against them - the salesperson confirms your fear and offers a way out. You may regret quitting university/college, worried about being stuck in a job, worried you haven't got enough money to move out of your parents home, steady girlfriend - the circumstances vary, but you get the picture.
By the end of the sesssion, it really is the answer to the potential students prayers. The 5K which will "only cost you £150 per month" is nothing when you consider a safe, steady, secure job which is well paid, respect from peers (all your certifications remember), enough money for your own home.... After embarking on the course and perhaps realise that all in the garden is not rosy (perhaps not related to the TP at this stage), the student will then start looking on the Internet for advice, see it is possible to study, seek help and book exams by yourself and want to cancel. It's a bit like buying a car and then looking what other drivers of the same model thought of it and then taking it back to the dealer.

I hope you and the others involved receive adequite training, or your money back and wish you the very best for the future.

 

bennybelton, nothing wrong with wanting to better yourself, nothing wrong realising you need support either, how you went about it, yes I think you took the wrong path.

I myself was once unsure at 18 and wondered how to progress, I took a HND with a local tech college.

Many colleges offer part time HNC's and Foundation Degrees, others offer certification training evening classes, the OU also offers distance learning courses.

The difference ? They don't employ salesmen to give you the hard sell, they are government regulated, they generally do want to help you, you will generally get more direct tuition and support, it will generally cost you less, you will generally be exposed to less financial risk.

If you still wanted a commercial trainer, there are also smaller training firms that sell small modular courses or webcasts and CBT's, again without the pressure sales or the large upfront cost.

There were very real solutions to your problem, but you went with the 'neon lights' glossy marketing of a large commerical TP.

I also hope you find a way out of your current predicament and generally learn from the experience.

 

As a guy who has been in the IT field for 13 years and a holder of 2 MCSE's (NT4 and 2003), a CCNA and Novell CNE as well as a TS in SCCM I can honestly say I find using a TP much better than self study, I know and understand how easy it is but I learn more in a structured classroom than when I am simply reading it from a book or watching it on a pc screen (ala CBT Nuggets or TrainSignal). I prefer the classroom of 5 - 8 like minded people who want to learn and that I can bounce ideas and problems off.

I also disagree with the idea of not having a mentor, I have mentored junior members of staff on multiple occasions.

I for one cannot be deemed as not being cut out for working in IT, I am earning more now than I have ever done.

I do agree about the net, infact that's why I just paid for membership to this site over the weekend but I don't discount TP's at all (especially as the likes of VMware don't allow you to selfstudy, you NEED to sit a course to become a VCP).

 

The training you are talking about is very different to the Training Provider being discussed here.

I still do not think it necessary to sit a course to study, for example CCNA, i'm sure like you i would enjoy it in a classroom with 5-8 like minded people. I'm just sayin i don't think it NECESSARY, however like i said those aren't the training providers i'm talking about.

And yes of course if you have senior members in your team they will be there to offer guidance, but i don't think they should be where you go any time you have a question, you need to be able to perform your own research and try to figure things out rather than run to someone else for the answer, who will also have their own job to do.

 

Simon I agree, I think most people learn better with face to face and hands on tuition. A good mentor is priceless.

However this can be limited with a bad TP, some trainers are simply not up to snuff or there simply are not enough lectures or tutorials.

The higher courses are more likely to require expensive one off professional training courses, as there simply aren't the facilities elsewhere. However these are normally paid for by an employer as your career progresses and should not really be taken by people not even in the industry.

There are many related points which have been made before, you cannot rely solely on classroom based learning if you want to have a successful career.

When people use the term TP, I think most of them envisage the TP's that adopt certain dodgy practices such as pressure sales, poor materials, using credit agencies and large loans, etc. They are not thinking of LearningTree, QA, or decent Cisco Academies, VMWare courses etc.

 

Fair points.

However, you need to consider what we mean by TP.

For some reason, we don't distinguish the good from the bad, which is why sometimes the forum comes across as TP = Evil.

It's not the case, there are some very good ones out there.
They have professional classrooms, employ certified instructors, use official course material and offer a buffet lunch. You typically go there for 3-5 days and cover whatever you need to in order to pass a certification exam if you want to. Often, the exam isn't included in the course as you're there to gain some knowledge, not necessarily pass an exam for the sake of doing so.

Corporations send their IT people here to brush up on their skills as part of their PD. There is absolutely nothing wrong with these places. In fact, they are a must. Your corporate employer isn't going to send you home for a few weeks with a Mike Meyers and tell you to study for an A+. They're going to send you to a TP on a 5 day Exchange course.

But that isn't what Advent is. Or Computeach, or Computrain, or Scheidegger, or SkillsTrain.
As Boyce said, they use glossy ads and smooth salespeople to sign people up for training that they don't need.

Again, you're correct about a mentor. In a job role, it's a senior guy, or peer, who has plenty of experience and who is happy to guide and support someone new. Great.

When Advent say mentor, they make it sound like the same thing - someone who will guide and support you - but in reality it's a phone number that you can call if you need help. Then you get told someone will call you back. Then they don't.

Not the same thing...

 

Thats not what a good mentor does. Where they have knowledge and you have none, sure they teach you, but what they also should be doing is encouraging you to find the solution and troubleshoot it as much as you can yourself.

My mentor here pretty much does that. So often I would have saved myself hours if I'd just asked him outright, but thats not what its about. I research it myself. And occassionally I find a gem he isnt aware of (case in point: I reduced a function he had that took several minutes to run to less than 10 seconds), other times he needs to point the answer out to me, or at least point me in the right direction.

You will always find mentors in your jobs, unless you are the senior, most experienced, member. I've always had one in any of the fields of IT I've chosen to dabble in.

I have to be honest, it sounds like you've been quite unlucky in not finding a mentor. 'Senior Members' you can ask advice of dont count as mentors. Theres a line that is crossed somewhere that changes them to mentor.

 

Ladies, Gents

There is still an available space on the FREE M6292 Configuring Windows 7 Course with us. Just email us as per the previous thread to secure your place.

Regards

Gareth Jones
Chief Instructor

 

I too have the finance agreement with Barclays..But when i spoke to them yesterday the Smug little **** of a manager told me that i would hve to accept the new training provider and i would have to pay off the loan. you mention that they told you the rest of the loan would be cancelled!!!! Could you elaborate on this for me please? I have only just recieved the essentials book and my payments were not due to start for a few weeks.

As for the people saying i was seduced by the dollar signs....I have just had my first child and need to find a job which will give me a decent wage...I use the computer every single day and have always been interested in how they work....So this seemed as good an idea as any, but if the advent salesman had told me i could never earn more that 50pence a week of course i would not have signed up for this course......You can't do it just for the love of 1s and 0s idid that in my music carreer for the last 20 years!!!!!!