Advent Training

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by ITbod, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    I didn't say everyone saw it that way, but I think it's really naive to think an awful lot see nothing but pound signs. My Problem is, it floods the industry with people that are in it for no other reason that the money, with IT, I think in order to fully understand and carry out anything other than reactive tasks (such as proactive improvement) then you really should be interested in it. As for loads of people working in jobs they do not find interesting or like then, by all means, working in a call centre, chip shop or a bloody hot air balloon company is probably not going to make you interested in the job you do. How many people that want to be Vets do you know that really couldn't give a **** about Animals? or Accountants that never EVER liked maths? By all means, if you work in some job just for the money then you don't need to be interested in it. I just disagree with people seeing it as easy money and as such ending up with plonkers everywhere who really couldn't care as long as they get paid.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  2. LukeP

    LukeP Gigabyte Poster

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    Although I agree Daniel that's unfortunately how TPs advertise their products.
    "Finish the course and earn £35k."
     
    WIP: Uhmm... not sure
  3. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Fair point.
    I think that's probably true of a lot of people.

    When I got into IT it was through a TP. One of the ones I was looking at sent a salesman around and he actually said 'If I had £35k in this hand here' (holding up his hands to help me out in case I was really thick) 'and I'd give it to you if you put £5k in this other hand, would you take it? Of course you would.'

    Of course, I didn't.
    So it's not always completely the individual's fault that they've been pulled in. Ever watch 'the real hustle'? Even people who appear otherwise normal can't resist it when someone says 'your pound against my twenty?' You feel like a mug for saying 'no'.

    But it's not always simple greed, the other reason is that somebody else does all the work for you (in theory).
    Yes, I want to get into IT, no idea how, so I'll pay this guy to do it for me.

    All well and good, after all, you'd pay an accountant to do your tax return for you if you didn't want to go through the pain yourself - unless of course you want to be an accountant, in which case you'd be better off doing it and learning something.

    That's where it all goes wrong. If you haven't got the ability to research things on the Internet, find your own way through problems, study things that interest you - then you shouldn't be looking at IT in the first place.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  4. _Prince_

    _Prince_ New Member

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    This sucks. I haven't received any email from advent, I had to find this out by myself. urgh
    I was getting ready to take my A+ exam, what shall I do now? =/
     
  5. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    What do you want to do now?

    How did you pay for the course? There are a number of threads here where people have offered advice to those who have paid by credit cards or through Barclays etc.

    Personally, I'd say get on with it and do your A+ exam.
    You may have to fork out for it yourself for now until things get sorted out, but it's better than doing nothing.

    Don't waste all the work you've put into it.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  6. _Prince_

    _Prince_ New Member

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    Hmm maybe I should stop my money and explain the banks what happened.
    Would it better if I joined somewhere else and took my A+ exam there?

    Aren't barclays finding alternative ways students can study to complete their studies, if not, I'm better off doing it somewhere else. I was a MSCE student, starting from scratch, begun off doing the A+, that's £130 forking out of my account over the last 8 months and all for nothing.
     
  7. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    That's what i don't understand - who cares if they only see the pound signs? If they can do the job they will do well, if not then they shouldn't be employed, and if they are then it just means IT is the same as all jobs, there will always be cowboys in every position!

    I do understand your points about being proactive and learnign new things etc, however i don't think you have to be massively interested to do so. That just makes it more fun for the individual to learn these new things!

    I'm afraid most people are in jobs for the money, it's just the way it is!
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: CCNP
  8. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    Yeah i know thats how they sell it, i just don't se teh big problem if someone who is able to work well in the IT industry got here because he saw that he would earn that much. If he then gets upset that in a few years he's not making that much then bad luck for him. But IT can be a financially rewarding career.
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: CCNP
  9. turner2010

    turner2010 New Member

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    Hello all, i am very much new to this site, but in the same boat as a lot of people at the minute. I like most of the rest of you had a very persuasive sales man come to my house and "sell" me a course, that i was neither equipped for or could generally afford, and like a lot of people the promise of a good career at the end of it and high earnings at 18 year old was a great offer that i could not refuse.
    I follwed all the procedures etc, got the loan, told them i needed an extra £700 from barclays which i then paid to advent !
    Having a baby, i did not have time for the course for the past year and a half but then decided i did not want to waste £4750 pound for a MCSE, and decided to give it another go, to find out this !!
    I have found the two companies involved absolutely appaling, to receive a email which appeared in my junk email, made me think it was just some sort of hoax, but after looking into this further i am disgusted.
    Thousands of students are now out of pocket ranging from thousands of pounds, i am stuck with a loan, half paid for with nothing to receive at the end of it, Looking into all who is to blame ??? Barclays say it is our fault as we took the loan out and therefore are responsible for it, and i replied back to the very ermm, displeasant member of staff that barclays should be vetting the companies that the loan is intended for as obviously in this case, would possibly have prevented, i have read a lot and there seem to be so many different companies with the same directors, who are obviously scamming a lot of unfortunate people. I am not stupid and neither is anyone else, but what do us as clients, now make of BARCLAYS, who have no interest in your financial position or your learning, and as long as they are making their money it doesnt matter. Whether or not Advent training are actually insolvent or just ceasing trading seems a mystery, there website is claiming its barclays who ceased the funding to the company, so in effect is it not barclays who are scamming us to? They get there money of us regardless so they couldnt give a t*ss, you cant cancel your direct debit and it will affect your credit rating etc etc, then the bailiffs, so what kind of country is england now, to be letting this happen to innocent people wanting better careers. I know i certainly do not want to be provided with another training provider, whos to say it wont happen again, least the fact after having just spoke to barclays they said it is not their job to provide us with this, and if we all want we can go with someone else and get another LOAN !! haha, i have to laugh. I work in a different bank myself which i cant say has the best reputation either now, makes you wonder what kind of place this will be in 10 years time and sorry to dissapoint you all again but after looking up on the financial ombudsman website, in march 05 a student had the same problem and tried to use the consumer agreement act section 75 only for the complaint to be rejected - so why do the banks offer therse loans with no protection to the borrower? beats me. Sorry for the long rant, but seems were all fu**ed big time on this one, any suggestions ??
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2010
  10. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Indeed, we all have to put food on the table.

    However, once I went on a corporate thing where a load of management consultants had come in to restructure and 'modernise' the company.

    We were chosen as a representative group across various job roles.
    One of the first things we did was to put together a list of reasons why we worked where we did.
    Without exception, everyone put 'to get paid' at the top of their list - and this was everyone from mangers to common people.

    The consultants said 'really? So the only reason you get out of bed in the morning and come here is to go home with a bit of cash?'

    And then we thought about it, and actually, it isn't really.
    It might sound lame, but to work just so that you get paid is tragically sad.
    Yes, we like money. We want more money.

    Do you strive for promotion just for an extra £x. and put up with all the extra sh1te that comes with it?
    No. We want a meatier job description, work satisfaction, responsibility, stuff to put on our CV, whatever.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  11. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Don't take this the wrong way - I do feel sorry for anyone who has lost money on this, or indeed anything else. I feel sorry for all the staff that have lost their jobs. I feel sorry for all the companies that used to supply Advent who will probably now face redundancies of their own.

    But listen to what you're saying and tell me how it's Advent's fault.

    If a salesman had come to your house and tried to sell you a car that you couldn't afford, and you couldn't drive, would you buy it?

    What if he told you it was a chick magnet, got excellent milage, and went from 0-60 in 2 seconds, would you buy it then? What if it was an investment - after 2 years sat on your drive you could sell it at a profit?

    You'd tell him to get bent.

    8)
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  12. EZE Training Instr

    EZE Training Instr Bit Poster

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    Jonny - Agreed

    Training companies that comes to peoples homes is bad news. Just watch Watchdog or Rouge Traders is just bad business from start to finish.

    This is a bad deal for those who have paid 1000's for training they can no longer continue. It does, however, make me wonder why people didn't look into detail about the MCSE it has 7 "modules" effectively. Why did they not ask if they could pay per module etc.

    Knock me down a peg or two if anyone thinks im wrong.

    Regards

    Gareth Jones
    Chief Instructor
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCITP, MCTS, VCI, VCP, CCNA, CCNP
  13. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Why not just book and pay for the exam yourself? you don't need to be put in this situation again, try self study.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  14. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    Spot on, if they we're sent an email saying "I have 72 million dollars for you" they would dismiss it. I think for the most part, they see nothing else but what they determine to be an "easy ride". Nothing is free in this world, nothing is easy either so the idea that at 18 he was going to be somehow earning more than literally 80% of people who work in the UK was nothing short of diabolical. Hook line and sinker comes to mind. I truly hope they get their money back because a debt like that is a big thing.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  15. dmarsh

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    Excellent points Gareth, and points I have now made for 2 years on here, unfortunately most people only come here once they have a problem... :hhhmmm

    You pay for a college degree in installments, one up front payment per term, normally 9 terms in the UK. You are therefore never fully exposed.

    NEVER pay 100% upfront for a service that costs £1000's, can vary in quality and is delivered over time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  16. EZE Training Instr

    EZE Training Instr Bit Poster

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    Cheers dmarsh,

    Im sure there was a degree of pressure selling but I don't part with 1p (unless its beer) without seeing what else someone else can provide.

    I just hope people in future see that just pay for what you need not everything all at once.

    Advent isn't the first and will not be the last either.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCITP, MCTS, VCI, VCP, CCNA, CCNP
  17. _Prince_

    _Prince_ New Member

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    hmm Where can I do that? Any help where i can book A+ exam myself, thanks. =] I live in London, so somewhere close to there would be better.
     
  18. bennybelton

    bennybelton New Member

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    I have been a student of Advents for 6 months and was about to take the second A+ exam, I was with Barclays and in doing so have been one of the lucky ones in that Barclays have frozen all accounts linked to Advent until they find alternatives or they cancel the rest of the loan amount as I pay monthly.

    Obviously very upset and angry a few days ago but have got out of it to either carry on by myself or see what Barclays can do for me, nothing will stop me getting in the way of my dreams which is why i have been angered by some posts on this thread....

    A few posters have exclaimed that starting a career with a training provider is for people with money signs flashing in their eyes and that we have been lured in by high salaries and promises of jobs and a better life. In saying this you are saying that I cannot think for myself and rely on others to get me where i want be. If I could use curse words there would be a barrage of them flowing into the page right now aimed at you guys!!

    I am almost 30 and am finally about to settle down and possibly getting married this year, I've never had a career and had flittered from job to job for most of my life, travelling and having a good time. I'm too old to qualify for a grant to take a Uni course as I have to work to support my new family. So, you're telling me I can't 'better' myself by paying a few grand for someone to help get me on the right track?

    I had always been interested in IT but never quite knew how to get into it and I certainly wasn't talked into signing up with a TP, I researched for months before taking the step and deciding to better myself over the future years because my life was changing. Sure, I could do it all myself but paying for all the exams, books, mock tests etc totalling two-three years worth was still gonna cost me a lot so I would gladly pay a little over the odds for a company who could be with me, aiding me in every step of the way with some kind of plan!

    And to be fair, before Advent's collapse they were helpful, their mentoring, although it could have had a quicker response time was very very good. And with their structure it suited me just fine. Not for a second did I have money signs flashing in my eyes because I am training for a career in a field I had never touched before! Not for second did I believe that I would solely rely on Advent to find me a job and not for a second did i believe i would be earning £35K after just 2 years.

    I am realistic and I was going to do things for myself but I personally needed a training provider like Advent to aid me at the start of my 'Career' as 6 months ago I knew nothing! All the posts stating that you don't need a training adviser or any help at all are so full of it, it makes me laugh, I'm only 6 months into the IT world and seem to notice that your qualifications reach CCNA and above, and there was me thinking that I may be able to look up to those people higher than me for help where in reality it just feels like you belittle people like me for trying to better myself and take a foothold in your sector, because that is exactly what I am trying to do and will succeed in doing!

    I am doing this for myself and the way I am doing it works well for me, I expect no more than £16K for my first IT job and expect career progression to be slow moving, I find the jobs myself but register my CV all across the net for when i do need help.

    I used a training provider to better myself not because of the money signs but because I want a long term career in the future so stop your moaning about those like myself who really are trying to change their lives!
     
  19. steevyp

    steevyp Bit Poster

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    has anybody else got their loan through advents finance partner, hitachi capital?

    it says on the loan agreement that the loan is specifically for an mcse course with advent and i am not paying any interest on it. does this mean that hitachi capital are just as liable for it all going balls up as advent are? can i demand my money back from hitachi seen as they loaned me the money specifically for the course? advent did put me in touch with them after all! :hhhmmm
     
    WIP: CompTIA A+ (220-701 & 220-702)
  20. steevyp

    steevyp Bit Poster

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    http://www.comptia.org/global/en-GB/home.aspx/

    this has all the info you will need. take a look around this site... i am also going to self study :D
     
    WIP: CompTIA A+ (220-701 & 220-702)

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