2009 Graduates

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being on placement IS real-world experience....its not like your there working in a lab, your in the office.

 

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Duh?

It's still limited to the amount of time set by your university though.

PS - It's spelt "you're", not "your"

Qs

 

That wasn't my point. My point was you said that placement experience != real world experience. Well both types of experience could happen in the 'real world', at the same company. The only difference would be how the person got to be there, their contract and pay and the timing in ther life. It would not necessarilly affect the skills or experience obtained or the services delivered or work produced.

Also some placements are as hard to win or harder as some 'real world' jobs, people know that the right placement could make the difference to their entire career. Some companies only take the top 2% from the top universities.

What if your full time job was a year contract ? What if the company you joined goes bust after one year ? Whats your point ?

I do not understand your point. I mentioned a year post graduation vs a year placement. Does 1 year != 1 year ?
I'm comparing apples to apples, I never said a placement was worth MORE than 'real world experience', you said it was worth LESS !

 

Ok, so how long do i have to have a job before i can call it "real world" experience?

 

Debates rock

My original comment was...

Obviously 'real-world' experience covers both placements and full/part-time work and this has probably been misinterpreted.

What I meant was:-

The difference between full-time work and placements is that placements are limited to the amount of time set by your university - say 6 months to a year.

Therefore students on placements are restricted because that's all they can put on their CV and this may stop them getting jobs when competing against people with more experience going for a similar position

Qs

 

Probably about ten years or until you take those shades off ! You're just not 'real' enough man !

 

All I can say from experience is that in the field of IT, schooling is not everything... like others mentioned, IT in general requires experience and those you don't have it find it hard to find their first job. With that said it is still very possible, I was fortunate enough to get a desktop support job right out of school.

 

Lol! Yep - they're placement shades for sure. Said in jest!!

 

I am with QS on this. Looking back I would have rather gotten some certs and a job then looked into HND/degree part time. Hindsight is a great thing

 

Here your saying they are not comparable....

whereas here you appear to be saying placements just don't get enough time?

it seems a silly point to make - saying someone with 1 year experience is going to be more favourably looked upon than someone thats only got 6 months - thats a given.

And the shades, they are more qualified thAn any others - my mates grandad's - issued to pilots in WW2

 

*deep breath*

My quotes link you know...

They're not directly comparable because placements are limited to the amount of time assigned by your university. You're set a slot and a job and you do it because it's part of your course.

But that's the thing... those at uni have a three/four year course to complete whereas in that time someone with a current I.T job could have built up three/four years of relevant experience. Recent graduates don't have this, they have a limited amount of experience gained on their placement (if a placement course is even available!)

I kinda like them to be honest

Qs

 

i dont get this time thing you seem to be going on about! i'm not discussing whether a 4 year degree is better than 4 years working the in field.

I was responding to your comment about a placement (be it for 1 week, 1 month or 1 year) not being "real-world" (obviously i believe it is)

SO someone who has done one year on placement i'd say has same "real-world" experience as someone who went and worked for a year (provided they were both doing the same thing)

They are excellent, see HERE for a better pic

 

I never said this! Lol. Or at least people misunderstood what I was saying Placements and full-time/part-time work are the same thing - experience. Nuff said. End of Story.

Yes, they do. We were discussing placement years. By choosing such a topic for discussion you have to bring other aspects in to play - such as the length of a uni course. The point I was trying (and still am for some reason!) is two-fold:-

1. Not all uni placements have a placement so these people when graduating may find it difficult to compete with someone who didn't go to uni and got experience in I.T - Purely because potential employers will look at your CV when considering you.

2. For those courses that have placements the fact still remains that...*wait for it*...the amount of time on a placement is limited to the time set by the university (due to the small matter of course completion). Therefore... someone that chose to go to uni on a sandwich course isn't going to be able to gain as much experience as someone who didn't go to uni and got an I.T job.

And therefore!!!.... they will generally find it more difficult to obtain a job by comparison.

I may have a look, thanks!

Qs

 

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, David Braben, Ian Bell, Linus Torvalds, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Mark Zuckerberg, Vadim Gerasimov.

Did these people start at the bottom ? Did they have years of experience at a large corporate ?

Aim for the stars, you might hit the moon....

Where would we be if people with real talent aimed for mediocrity.

 

I see what your saying....but that was never the point i was debating with you....at all times i was contesting your point on placement experience not being "real-world" experience.

 

Bill gates dropped out after a year and his parents gave him millions of $ to start a business not a good example. Most successful buisness people fail like bill gates failed at education.

 

Why is it not a good example ? He wrote a basic interpreter with his own skill and turned it into a profitable business. He did not work a desk job, do helpdesk, or obtain certs.

I have to admit that his family background probably helped a little.

So remove him from the list, the point still stands, many people have managed to have a real impact on the world without the sort of 'real world' experience people seem to prescribe. Still more have made an impact after higher education and a small amount of time in a research post.

 

His parents gave him the education the tools and the money to make more money.

 

They should be. But most teachers don't know to tell them that.

I thought the same thing with my BS in Chemistry. But it didn't happen... employers wanted chemists with Masters degrees, and my instructors didn't tell me. It's the same situation as IT instructors - my chemistry teachers likely didn't know to tell me.

A degree may be "pointless" for entry-level work... but that very same degree WILL open up jobs later in your career that will be unavailable to non-degreed candidates, I promise you.

With an attitude like that, it's no wonder you haven't gotten an IT job yet! IT is NOT about "supporting the network"... IT is **all** about something meaningful: support of the end user. THEY are the reason we have a job in the first place, NOT the network... whether you're a programmer or a database admin or a security admin or a server room rat or even a helpdesk tech. If you don't give a crap about that... well, you're in the wrong field, my friend. Better to figure that out now than five years from now...

Fortunately for you, you're not trapped in one of those boring IT jobs, eh?

 

Nobody said that people shouldn't aim for the stars... the danger is that people are EXPECTING to hit the stars or the moon... and then get disappointed because they don't hit it. By all means, shoot for the stars... but if you miss the stars, and you aren't content with working your way up the way the overwhelming majority of people do it... then you're setting yourself up for disappointment and, potentially, failure.