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Hi all my names Nick,

I am 37 lived in Thailand for 5 years working in the property business but due to the political status over here in Thailand I was forced on a career change. IT has always been a passion of mine so thats the path I chose.

So i locked my self in my room for 6 months and have done nothing but study. So up to day I have achieved the following certs:
CCNA
SND
SNPA
by default : Cisco Firewall Specialist and Cisco Information Security Specialist plus 4011 recognition.

As you may notice I am pursing my CCSP and hope to complete within 6 months more.

I have pretty clear path and goals set. My plan is to return to the UK and gain experience in the Networking field, and hopefully once I have enough experience, carry this knowledge and experience back to this part of the World or even the Gulf or Australasia. This is of course if all goes to plan. I have to base myself over in Asia as I own property and have a son in school here plus i love it

Do you think that with the certs I have obtained at present, that I would find it difficult to find work back in the UK or would it better to wait untill I finish my CCSP before looking? Also i do plan on starting my CCNP soon as I finish this CCSP.

 

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I'm sorry to say this, but the CCNA, CCSP, and CCNP will not help you get a job without experience. Without experience, the most you are qualified for is an entry-level job, and entry-level jobs don't involve working with Cisco equipment.

I would recommend that you get the A+ certification and get an entry-level job to start building experience.

Best of luck!

 

I`m sorry but I can't see it, It seems there is a large enphasis on A+ certs in this forum, now surely a CCNA and definatley a CCSP and CCNP is much more note worthy than an A+. This is like coming out of Uni and been told to retake your GCSE`s it doesn't make sense to me. I am pretty sure I could take my network+ and fly it, so what is the benifit of having Net+ over a CISCO cert?

Also Your saying to me at best i`m only qualified to answer phones? Surley an employer can't ignore a candidate with a decent list of certs?

 

First off, entry level jobs are not just answering phones.

Michael is trying to say that without experience, companies are not going to let you loose on their cisco kit. Simple as that. It seems to me you may be putting yourself out of the market, its like getting an MCSE with no experience, its pretty much worthless to any employer because they still won't let you near the servers without that critical real world experience.

 

If you go for an entry level job they will look at your certs and feel you are too qualified too "answer a phone" and if you go for jobs that require your certs they will look and see you have no experience to go with the certs which is very important alot more important then the certs! so you will have to start at the bottom to build up some experience to go with your certs.

 

Err yes they will! Experience is a must in IT - and you'll find this at interviews when they pop questions at you that won't have been covered in the cert!

Yes answering phones is one option but they're are many other options out there - but they don't pay half as well as the profession you are studying for!

Certs or not, no employer will let you anywhere near Cisco kit etc without previous experience! Employers run a business - not a charity! You have to use them to get a foot in the door and 9 times out of 10 that means starting at the bottom!

There is a large emphasis on A+ because it's an entry level cert that gets MOST people on to the first part of the ladder - however don't think that just beacuse your doing those other certs that the A+ is below you. I know many people - MCSEs, CCNAs - who failed the A+ after they'd done their higher certs! Never underestimate the A+.

Also I know of people who have a degree but failed their GCSEs - Degrees and GCSEs are unrelated in assesment method!

 

The IT field in the UK is very competitive: without experience you will have to start at the bottom, no matter what Certs you have. Sometimes (yes, guys, I do listen...) your Certs will even count against you. And the more Certs you have without experience, the more certain this becomes.

The best you can expect is that you will be seen as someone with potential, and with commitment. But you're still going to have to start on the bottom rung. And if you go there with an attitude, that you're too good for that, you'll not even get that far.

The place I'm working, (and this seems VERY unusual given the experience of others here with way more years under their belts than me), the CCNA got me the interview for their network helpdesk (and they'd never even heard of A+) - but they still started me answering the phones. And you know what? They were damned right to do so.... Certs with no experience, it's like passing your driving test on paper and a PC-simulator - and then being landed in the centre of London, stuck in a car, and told to get on with it......

 

I understand that no experience is the problem and getting the experience is a must. BUT.. I belive in not selling youreslf short.. I belive that if you do, you run a risk of starting out way below your par and not being able to get the chance to climb the ladder becaue your stuck in a rut, I also know what my capabilities are and would never outreach myself because I would be kidding only myself in the long run. Also I wouldn't expect an high paid high level tech job with no experience, who in the right mind would.

Also I am not trying to be-little the A+ cert. I have (as some people might think) an entry level cert allready with the CCNA and in my opinion its not entry level, absolutley no way, it was an extremely tough cert to accomplish and I worked my a*s off to get these certs. So why would I need to take my A+ entry level cert when I`m half way through my CCSP? I know the focus of Cisco certs is Cisco hard/software but you have to have solid understanding of networking, routing swithing or I wouldn't be certified surely?

On another note, does your home lab equipment not class as some sort of experience?

 

Everybody works their arse off to get a cert - whether it be A+ or CCSP.

No-one said you were belittling the A+?????????????? What people picked up on was your completly incorrect comparison to passing a degree and then doing GCSEs to passing the CCNA then going to do an A+. You put that forward in manner that suggested to me that the A+ is below you.

On a different matter, working with this subject matter 8 hours a day in a production environment (CCNA etc) is what gives you solid understanding of networking etc. Following exercises from a book gives you a vague idea but that's about it!

I thought I knew it all about Active Directory after I completed the AD MCP - oh how wrong was I?

 

There's probably a few things that you need to think about when assessing the info you're given here. It's a forum dedicated to IT Certs, so it might seem a bit odd when you get the advice that these self-same certs aren't going to be as helpful to you in getting established in a new career as you might have thought.

Firstly, the certs themselves: they are designed and intended to provide those working in the industry with recognition of the skills and knowledge they have attained from doing the job. Although there is nothing to stop someone with no experience from taking them and passing them, when a prospective employer is looking at them, it is as a complement to the candidate's experience, not to be seen as something separate to that experience. With entry level jobs, it is possible to get away with having no experience: with CCNA it's much harder; with CCNP/CCSP, you can forget it.

Secondly, the experience itself. This isn't just about subject knowledge. It's experience of working in the industry, with it's quirks of customer and co-worker interactions, - and certainly with larger employers, it's about a familiarity with the industry standard ways of getting things done.

People here aren't trying to put you off, or not wanting you to succeed - it's watching someone about to walk into a lamp-post and shouting: look out!

 

QUOTE=drum_dude

No-one said you were belittling the A+?????????????? What people picked up on was your completly incorrect comparison to passing a degree and then doing GCSEs to passing the CCNA then going to do an A+. You put that forward in manner that suggested to me that the A+ is below you. QUOTE

What I am saying is, I am doing my CCSP, which is a proffesional certificate not entry level, I don't see how doing yet another "entry" level cert is going to better my chances getting a start. I have done my "entry" cert, with the CCNA (although I firmly belive its not entry), so why do I need 2 entry certs?
It's obvious that you need to start 'near' the bottom and climb but to have the proffesional certificates is not going to hinder me surely? Otherwise whats the point of certs? You may as well say they are useless and everyone needs to forget studying for the proffesional certs just do an entry cert and just work thier way up through the ranks. You see, what I am atempting to do by doing the CCSP and CCNP is to try and get a start but just not right at the very bottom. With all my proffesional working history and my real world experience, added together with a my networking proffesional certs surley I would be of some value to someone.

To me, speaking as an ex-manager (I use to be a project manager for a large development company) if some one showed the aptitued to complete theses certificates then then that person is showing a certain level of intelligence and knowledge and enthusiasm for that persons chosen career, I would not just dismiss their achivements because of the lack of experience.

IMO There is no need for any one to sell themselves short, you can achieve whatever goals you want as long as you have a plan stick to it unconditionally and have the confidence to belive in yourself that you can do it. Oh and obvioulsly know your stuff too.

 

Nikk, have you thought about getting into IT Project Management? Your current project management skills combined with your certs could land you a good position over in the UK - if you know your shite with networking then those you manage won't be able to bullshit you! IT Project managament skills should be easy to transfer to other countries as good IT PMs are in demand - the techie stuff is usually carried out by the locals on the equivalant of 2 quid an hour, so I would steer clear of trying to get a living with those techie roles!

Would certs like Prince 2 and ITIL interest you?

Well done with getting those certs and good luck for the CCSP

 

Welcome to CF, I must say some good advise have already been stated above. Whilst you worked hard to obtain those Cisco certs it still very much boils down to experience lacking in your case.

Unfortunately, in the UK most times a cert would get you an interview but experience ultimately would get you the job. I'd advice you go for the MCP cert and then start applying for helpdesk and desktop 1st line support roles and build up your career from there on if that's what you want in the long run.

 

Hiya Nikk trust me when I say you will learn stuff by doing A+ you havent on a BSc Computing, I have.

and also getting too many certs and qualifications before you have experience can be bad for your job hunting.

 

They can ignore them, and do. Being able to pass a bunch of certification tests is one thing; being able to perform the job in the field is quite another. Employers have been burnt by people taking certifications, but not able to actually do the job. I don't doubt your intelligence... but if you have no real-world IT experience, you're not able to administer a network. You certainly can, in time.

I think you misunderstand what certifications are all about. The CCNA isn't an entry cert. Nor are any of the other certifications you've gotten. And you agree as much. The question I have for you is this: if you haven't yet "entered" the IT field, what are you trying to accomplish getting upper-level certifications? Upper-level certifications will NOT get you an upper-level (or even mid-level) job without experience.

Working on a home lab is not considered experience. Working on a school lab is not considered experience. Degree coursework is not considered experience. Getting a bunch of certifications is not considered experience. Only working in the IT industry is considered experience by hiring managers.

Of course it can. If you pursue an entry-level job with all those certifications, a hiring manager is going to think one or more of three things:

1) This guy must have braindumped (cheated) his way through these exams because he doesn't have any real world experience (doesn't matter if you did or not - that will be the perception. If you don't know what braindumps are, look here.).
2) Look at this guy's certifications! He's probably going to expect more money than this entry-level job pays (and then trash your resume without even calling - yes, that happens).
3) Look at this guy's certifications! Sure, we could hire him, but he'll probably end up leaving for something better or more advanced or for more money in just a few months, and we'll have to train up someone else for the position... hiring him is too big a risk for us to take.

As someone else has already mentioned, certifications are designed to show that you already have experience with a technology... not designed to show that you WANT to get experience with a technology.

An overwhelming majority of companies won't take a risk hiring someone without previous IT experience to configure their network infrastructure - it's just too mission-critical to entrust to someone who has no real-world business experience doing that sort of work. Cisco jobs absolutely require experience. Don't be fooled by people telling you that all you need is a certification and employers will hire you up. It's just not true. Certification is NOT a magic key to get you an IT job... and this advice is coming from someone who makes his living from IT certification training.

But... you don't have real-world IT experience. Regardless of your prior work history, you haven't worked in IT. That's essential. When I got my first "real" IT job, I had messed with PCs for 18 years, and was the go-to computer guy at my job... though it wasn't an IT job. I also had a degree. Know where I started? At the bottom.

Okay... let's say that you attempt to get a job where you're not starting out at the very bottom. You apply for a job with a bunch of certifications, but no experience. Know who's going to get the job? The guy who's got experience... the guy who has DONE the job before. When your competition has experience, they will win every time. Sorry, man, that's the way that employers hire... and we're trying to tell you before you "run into that lamp post".

I'm not saying that they will "dismiss your achievements"... but you haven't achieved anything other than pass a few tests. You have no experience.

What I said about braindumps, above, applies here. Passing exams doesn't mean that you are necessarily intelligent. You very well may be. However, there are braindumps out there that make it incredibly easy to pass exams by cheating (learning the real questions and answers on the live exams). Thus, if I see someone with advanced certifications and no experience... I trash the resume. It's too big a risk to hire someone like that... sorry.

I'm trying to tell you what people who are already in the industry and hiring people for entry-level jobs are thinking: certifications without experience are not useful. You can believe this advice, or you can ignore it. But before you ignore it, I would ask you to read the testimony of two people who finally realized I was right: link

We're not telling you to sell yourself short. We're recommending that you re-evaluate your perception of certification to match what IT employers have. Otherwise... you're going to have an incredibly difficult time breaking into the industry.