Zenos Course

Discussion in 'MCDST' started by Queeg, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    Hold on a minute BM

    Hasn't it been mentioned in the post that these courses are free??

    I notice as soon a a TP is mentioned, you jump straight in and have a go. I am with a TP and am extremely happy with the service I have recieved for the money I spent.

    It fustrates me that many of you guys on here advocate self study and slate TP's when not many of you have had any experience with them. OK there might be a few baddies out there, but don't tar every TP with the same brush.

    Like I said I am happy with what I paid for.
     
  2. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Then we disagree. So?

    The point is this: free or not, those statistics are absolutely absurd. That ought to be a danger sign.

    I work for a company that offers training classes. Doesn't stop me from saying what I absolutely know to be true about most TPs.

    And don't go about telling me that I don't have experience with training providers. I work in the certification training industry. If you don't like it, continue to disagree. Couldn't care less, man. :dry
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  3. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    OK point taken!

    Maybe it's different in the USA than to the UK. I do feel as if I'm hitting my head against a brick wall when you guys rip TP's down. I have seen threads on this forum of guys who have paid hard earned cash to TP's and you guys come back and say 'wasted your money', how do you think that makes the poor guy feel, and I notice many of them never post again....I wonder why?

    This forum surely should be impartial and help and advise people, whether it be self study, a TP or just browsing.

    Thanks

    MrM
     
  4. wakky geek

    wakky geek New Member

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    Iv checked with the centre and they can CONFIRM that '80% of their graduates HAVE got a job in IT within 3 months of finishing the course'. I also asked about the college figures and they said thay can't really say, BUT it is ALOT lower than zenos.

    The academy also asists u in finding employment after the course as they work closely with large comepanies, but they can't guarantee anything (of course).


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

    "Zenos, Europe's largest Microsoft IT Academy, is a national IT training organisation funded through the UK Government's Learning and Skills Council. Based in Aynho in Oxfordshire and with Academies across the UK, Zenos has over 1,000 trainees on its training programmes. The company works with a host of blue-chip companies including Fujitsu, Xerox, HP, Synstar, and Capgemini to provide high quality IT training. Zenos achieves a pass rates of around 80 per cent (National average is just over 40 per cent) for its IT Systems Support & Services, and IT Software Development programmes."


    Zenos Academy: http://www.zenos.com/zen_target.htm
    Zenos: http://www.zenos.com
     
  5. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    They can't say, because it's simply not true.

    Perhaps you should listen to people who went to college and are actually IN the industry? Or, don't... doesn't matter to me. I give the advice for YOUR benefit, not my own.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  6. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Total BS 8)
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) MS-900 AZ-900 Security+ Network+ A+
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  7. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    From the sounds of what people are saying about TPs in the UK, it's absolutely the same... or worse.

    Many of us say 'wasted your money' (though not usually with those words) because many of us have wasted OUR money. Others of us say 'wasted your money' because we have seen, firsthand, that you can achieve certifications without spending money on a training course! So if you CAN pass by spending, say, £100, why spend £2000?

    Additionally, when you get into IT, 99% of companies aren't going to spend money for you to take a course to learn new technologies. They'll expect you to pick it up on your own, so you might as well get used to self-study NOW. It's a vital IT skill, whether you think so or not.

    People who pay hard-earned cash for TPs likely post once and don't post again because they're busy repaying the huge debt they've amassed. Or... they simply don't like hearing the truth. Some people don't.

    Dude, this is a user forum, made up of many people with many different opinions. The admin staff should absolutely be impartial, in that they shouldn't remove posts simply because they don't agree with them (provided the posts abide by the forum rules). But the users themselves absolutely should NOT be impartial! That's what makes forums USEFUL! If people came online asking, "Should I do TP or self-study?", what should we say? "Choose for yourself"? That's absurd. They're coming for advice, and I'm darned sure going to give them what they're asking for. Just because you don't agree with what most of us who are already certified and in the IT industry advise, that's not our problem... and we shouldn't stop giving that advice simply because you disagree with it.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Shhh, Sparks... don't disagree with Machfisto, or shed light on the statistics a TP throws out... :rolleyes:

    :p
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    BM

    I do agree with your comments that TP's should not give out figures they can't back up just to get the guy to sign and yes I'm sure this happens all the time.

    All I am saying is I am happy with my TP and would recommend them to anyone. I wasn't given the BS Sparky mentioned, just the cold hard facts that it was an investment, it wil be hard work and NO you won't be earning loads of dosh. My TP was honest and truful and I saw quite a few TP's before them who promised me the earth if I signed on the dotted line, so yes they are out there doing this, but there are also the odd good TP if you do your research hard enough. People need to open their eyes :eek: and make sure they have all of the facts (not fiction) before the dive in.

    MrM
     
  10. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Thats good then, the problem I have with training providers is that they charge you loads of money, give you some books and tell you to read them. The odd one has a workshop day and if you get stuck you can ask for help.

    Whats wrong with getting the books yourself, buying an old PC to mess with and if you need help ask on here, and save yourself loads of money.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  11. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    Hi GBL

    Can I ask if you have ever been with a TP?
     
  12. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    Nah I've only been with women ! :biggrin
     
  13. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Yes, there *is* the occasional good TP out there, I agree. I never said there weren't good TPs. The overwhelming majority, sadly, are not... and Zenos making those sort of claims to Wakky is a huuuuuge red flag that he should be aware of. My comments will do nothing but clear the eyes of people who are starry-eyed at the claims made by TPs. If I stop even one person from making a bad decision, then it's all been worth it.

    And... as you rightfully say... if someone goes into a situation with their eyes clear, and they dig, and question, and research what they can about training providers, then they'll be ABLE to locate a good TP. If they go into the situation assuming that a TP's not gonna screw them because we fill them full of "oh I had a happy-good-feely time with my TP" stories, they're gonna get screwed. But if they go into the situation listening for all the danger signs the rest of us repeat over and over and over, they'll likely do their research. And that's the result we're going for, man.

    It's fine to praise your TP. That's cool. I have nothing against that. But please, do NOT try to dissuade others from trying to warn people of what most every other TP is out there doing.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  14. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    No because of what I investigated about them and the advice I got on here, and I am glad for that advice.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  15. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Then you're my "one person" that makes it worth the effort. 8)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  16. Ropenfold

    Ropenfold Kilobyte Poster

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    Some people may be happy to pay the money and do the Training provider route, thats fine, the problem is the absurd promises the some of these training providers make to get you to sign on the dotted line.

    No one on here is saying they are all bad, its just sadly some companies play on the insecurities many people have about their career paths and qualifications and people don't realise they can do many of the things training providers promise for a fraction of the cost.

    Surely most people would rather save their money than spend it?
     
    Certifications: BSC (Hons), A+, MCDST, N+, 70-270, 98-364, CLF-C01
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  17. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    See before I joined CF I knew about certs like MCSE etc and I also knew that high level certs were for people who knew what they were doing not for begginers.

    What I didn't know was that you didn't have to do a course to do an exam. After visiting the computeach site and various other TPs a lot I was beggining to think I am gonna get ripped off here. This is when I found CF and got some solid advice.

    College courses are fine, but TPs should be banned imo until they stop spreading BS about you'll get 37k a year, an armarni suit and jag in your first IT job because basically its promising something that wont happen and the get out clause is all in the small print.

    EDIT: Just to add I feel I have learned more by reading the books and practicing the methods in those books than I would have if I had went with a TP who gives me a crappy looking GUI where I point and click stuff. Anyone can point and click stuff but can they do without the GUI thats were practicing the methods come in.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  18. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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  19. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  20. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    "You need to put the end quote thingy to do the quoting correctly."

    lets see if I have got it?

    Edit: NOPE
     

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