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Worth attempting CCENT, but no experience, have Network+

Discussion in 'General Cisco Certifications' started by jo74, Sep 1, 2009.

  1. jo74

    jo74 Byte Poster

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    Just wondering whether it would be worth my while achieving the CCENT. But the problem is I've no experience. Although I've gained the Network+. But I do have some spare time to fill.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, Sec+
    WIP: CCENT, CCNA
  2. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    CISCO's own words, if that helps?

    would really help if you could get some experiance whilst doing it and use that N+ you have
     
    Certifications: Loads
    WIP: Lots
  3. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Only problem with that, Andi, is that successful careers in networking are usually preceded by years in a successful career as an entry-level tech, desktop support tech, and server admin. You don't start from zero and jump right into a network administration career. No employer in their right mind would hire someone without experience to administer Cisco gear.

    Jo, I've been in IT a dozen years, and in my opinion, it will not do you much good to get the CCENT without having the smallest bit of real-world, hands-on Cisco router administration experience, or at the very least, the opportunity to start getting that experience. The knowledge is great... but the certification won't be that useful to you without the experience on your CV to back it up.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  4. jo74

    jo74 Byte Poster

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    Thanks for that advice.

    So any takers for a hastily purchased CCENT book :dry
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, Sec+
    WIP: CCENT, CCNA
  5. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    I am interested in that cert as well... but we have no cisco equipment here so it's kind of useless for me to have if I don't get to use the knowledge... Plus down the line you'll forget it if you don't practice it.
     
    Certifications: A+ | CCA | CCAA | Network+ | MCDST | MCSA | MCP (270, 271, 272, 290, 291) | MCTS (70-662, 70-663) | MCITP:EMA | VCA-DCV/Cloud/WM | VTSP | VCP5-DT | VCP5-DCV
    WIP: VCAP5-DCA/DCD | EMCCA
  6. Evilwheato

    Evilwheato Kilobyte Poster

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    I don't see how it would hurt. If you've got some time to fill, read the book.
    You don't have to add it to your CV ;)
     
  7. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    You don't see how it would hurt because you haven't likely been in the IT industry long enough to understand how it could hurt. The CCENT covers job tasks that are absolutely unrelated to entry-level tech work. If someone with no experience came to me with a resume that had the CCENT or CCNA on it, I wouldn't hire him to administer Cisco routers. And if I had an entry-level job to give, I'm probably going to think that a CCENT or a CCNA would be too much of a flight risk, because they're obviously more interested in Cisco routers than entry-level tech work - I'd hire them, and they'd be likely to bail as soon as something better came along... leaving me to find, hire, and train someone all over again. His resume would likely end up in the trash; although he may be knowledgeable, he'd be too big of a risk for me to hire.

    If he's got "time to fill", he should probably start applying for jobs. If he's got a job, he should probably grab the MCDST or try to get some server administration experience at his work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  8. jo74

    jo74 Byte Poster

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    Oh, I am applying for jobs.

    And I've decided (finally) to aim for the MCDST.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, Sec+
    WIP: CCENT, CCNA
  9. DrHogg

    DrHogg Bit Poster

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    One of the guys in my previous office was obsessed with the Cisco certificates, yet had no real world on the job experience of Cisco. I tried to explain to him that this would make it very difficult for a quality IT recruitment consultant to hire him because they would look at his CV and see "Support Monkey." He would have none of it and would be rather venemous towards anyone who even suggested leaving networking certificates to those who are in / want to be in networking.

    Whenever someone mentioned studying anything remotely Microsoft related he would bully them until they did as he demanded and undertook a Cisco course.

    I remember on one occassion he convinced a colleague to do a CCNA because his "friend" had an MCSE and "all he does is change paper in printers." Heaven forbid anyone suggest that his friend might be in such a position due to any one of a million other reasons. :biggrin
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
    WIP: 70-682
  10. jo74

    jo74 Byte Poster

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    I suppose because the CCENT's described as entry level and there's some overlap with the Network+, that's what piqued my interest.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, Sec+
    WIP: CCENT, CCNA
  11. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    It may have Entry in the name, and it may be CISCO'S entry-level cert, but it's by no means a cert designed for entry-level techs with no IT experience. Cisco's choice of name for that certification is unfortunate.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  12. gurusapprentice

    gurusapprentice Nibble Poster

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    I thought the whole reason for cisco introducing CCENT was in direct competition to N+ with the idea being that you gain that in order to gaining CCNA within the following 3 yrs. Where as the CCNA is designed for people that have already been using Cisco equipment.

    As for the not hiring issue/being overqualified I personally feel there are 2 routes not knowing anything getting a job i.e in firstline support and then working your way up through experience/ knowledge then taking certs. Or having good certs with little experience and taking a foot in the door Job. Whilst I understand Bosuns view of somebody submitting a CV full of qualifications for a lower level job then leaving? I feel that it is precisely that mindset that ends up with companies having the wrong people in the wrong job i.e The IT manager knows his stuff but is no longer hands on but those underneath either no v little or have little inclination to better themselves.

    I have met " So called IT Managers" who look down the nose when you mention qualifications yet when it comes down to the nitty gritty I wouldn't trust them to tie their own shoe laces without getting in a fangle.

    As to the original poster go get your CCENT don't just read a book though sign up with a college so @ least you will get some proper hands on.
     
    Certifications: MCSA+Messaging
    WIP: Degree CCNA/CCNP 70-622 MCITP:E e
  13. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    No, not really. Look at the CCENT objectives... they're clearly tasks that involve working with Cisco equipment. Totally different than Network+.

    What's the difference between "firstline support" and a "foot in the door job"? A firstline support job IS a foot in the door job.

    Actually, it is that mindset that PREVENTS hiring the wrong people for the wrong job.

    Hands-on work in a classroom lab isn't the same as real-world hands-on experience.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  14. morph

    morph Byte Poster

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    dont have to do the exam mate - nothing wrong with reading up on a subject if your interested - i been reading about bgp, i think thats why i have a headache :D
     
    Certifications: Network +, ITIL Foundation, CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: server/ccna security
  15. gurusapprentice

    gurusapprentice Nibble Poster

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    I see where your coming from Bosun, I do however believe that the natural progression from N+ is or should be CCent if you want a future in networking. I for one wouldn't dream of taking N+ simply because for what it is it is totally overpriced and is aimed at exactly the same market as CCent.

    The other point I was trying to make is yes I can understand being faced by somebody with an MCSE or CCNP straight from the test centre having read the latest brain dump and nobody wanting to touch them with a barge pole, this is different however to somebody having gained other certs then wishing to gain hands on experience. I supose its a bit like going on an intern/placement yr whilst @ university. Nobody is going to give you the top job however they will see there are better uses for you than washing the cups to make the tea except when its your turn of course.
     
    Certifications: MCSA+Messaging
    WIP: Degree CCNA/CCNP 70-622 MCITP:E e
  16. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Then we will have to agree to disagree, because I can tell you, after being in IT for 12 years, the "natural progression" from Network+ is not the CCENT if you want a future in networking. The "natural progression" from Network+ if you want a future in networking is by administering servers, THEN administering networks. I can count the number of toes on one hand the number of network admins I know who administers routers who didn't first administer servers.

    How is it different, when the employer isn't gonna know you from Adam?

    That'd be fine if that's how employers treated positions for hire. But that's not how most approach it... nor should they, in my opinion. Their job is to find someone who can do that position, not that position and all the positions over it. That's why McDonalds doesn't hire fry cooks who have Masters degrees, even though they're (technically and supposedly) qualified to manage the restaurant.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  17. stevfor

    stevfor New Member

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    As with many things there are always different possibilities and permutations. I don’t
    agree totally with the notion that someone will move on quickly if overqualified. In many countries it is very hard getting in first of all, especially in these difficult times. So it cannot be that bad getting in with a ccent or a few mcps or what not.. After all nobody wants to be doing first line entry stuff for too long as it involves a lot of crap. Also why would someone only be looking to move to another place,
    why not just wanting to move up intenally.

    Of course there is a limit in what to get without any exp.. too much seems a bit pointless

    I have just skimmed through the ccent press book just to see how far it goes and too see if I do want to try and go for it. At the moment I am not even thinking of the exam – just learning new stuff – after all learning is good even if you end up forgetting things if not too exposed.


    I’d hate to think that people with the power to hire someone would just bin a cv because they did not like the certifications…
     
  18. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

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    just for the record, i work in a team of 5 network engineers, and i'm the only one whoever spent time administering servers.

    I will add though, i think in the long run i'll be a better engineer because of it.
     
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
    WIP: CCNP
  19. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Let us know how that works out for you, considering you're being advised this by people who sit on the other side of the hiring table from you.

    It's not that they don't like the certifications... it's that the certifications aren't useful without experience.

    But hey, you never know - you might be one of the lucky ones! Then again, considering the number of overcertified people who have complained about not being able to find an IT job, I wouldn't bet my career on it if I were you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  20. Straylight

    Straylight Bit Poster

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    HI.
    Just seen this thread and would like some pointers / impressions from guys in the IT support industry.

    Briefly. I'm working in a non ITfield at mo. Customer service, busy callcentre. in bound admin. General problem solving. I'm a blind guy, use screenreading software. For quite a while I've been wanting to get into IT support. I'm also interested in website support, back end stuff and general IT security.

    IT quals wise. I have a couple of basic City & Guilds. Networking Basics, MS Access. Working towards CCENT and on to CCNA currently.

    Experience, as is common with many, is the problem. Have done a bit of general IT support in previous job as in. Basically configuring Windows systems, installing acces technology for blind peple using the webb. outside work environment. Outside work for personal stuff. used Apache, MYSQL and PHP a bit. Smattering of Unix when I've needed to. Casual stuff like advising peple setting up Wifi at home for first time. Generally helped out friends and family who are less IT literate. Hands on stuff with Cisco gear has been up to now, just with hardware lab at home. Several routers and couple of switches. This is obviously something I'm progressing with.

    I know peple mention the MS desktop quals, which I am interested in. But with out boring you there are some issues with the courses not being accessable, so far as I've been able to ascertain thus far. Obviously I do my own trouble shooting when problems crop up on the home Windows systems and have picked up a lot that way.

    Now, of course I'm not expecting to get a network support job based purely on that and a CCNA cert should I pass (touch wood.) I'm frequently applying for entry level help desk jobs, though they seem pretty rare. Where I work I think they've out saurced that side of things abroad. Need to speak to line manager to see if there's any possibility of work shaddowing, helping out if not though.

    Other ways of gathering some experience. Once I'm a bit more confident with what I'm learning, I'll hang around on forums such as these more, offering solutions and advice where I can. Need to put some feelers out, see if anyone locally wants me to offer free help with basic network troubleshooting. Small businesses, shops. As long as I have my laptop with screenreader and a consol cable. Thinkign allowed there...

    Anyone got any other general tips re gaining experience or at least demonstrating to potential employers you're worth a punt? Course I know, realistically it's always harder to find any type of work when you're disabled. Current economic climate too. But I'm confident in my general troubleshooting abilities. Know where to find the answer, if I don't know it myself. But how to convert that into something I can stick on the CV?

    Erm anyway. Bit of a ramble there. Apols for long post. :)
     
    Certifications: CCENT
    WIP: CCNA MS 70-680

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