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Working for free..

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Waria Ahmed, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    I have been working in 2nd line support for almost 2 years, I have a degree in computing science and I'm pretty confident with computers.

    I want to make a step up from 2nd Line with something more technical but I seem too junior for any role. Is it possible for me to make myself available for unpaid work experience for 6-12 months and what is the best way for me to go about that?

    Thanks in advance for any answers...
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  2. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Dont really think that is the best way to go tbh. Working is free is fine when starting out it IT but not if are two years into your IT career.

    Get the CV updated and apply for a few technical jobs and see how it goes. 8)
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  3. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    I agree with Sparky. Unless its something you can explain in future interviews i.e. I'm into IT Security so if I did a year working for the police to catch pedo's, working for buttons/free, I could get away with that cos its a noble cause. If however I took a year out to go work behind a bar as an example, future employers could think I"m a bit of a flake who dips in and out of my career as I see fit and won't hire me. Just my opinion, Jim
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  4. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    Ahh dammit! :(

    Any advice on what would be the best to get into 3rd line support. I know I'll have to for a fair bit of studying though!
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  5. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    A combination of the right qualifications, attitude, experience and a bit of luck to be honest mate. How are your Professional certifiactions looking? 3rd line I'd expect MCSE and/or at least CCNA, or CCNP alone depending on what field of support you want to get into.
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  6. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    Ive got a degree in computer science, ITIL and SCJP.. Looking to get into CCNA but waiting for open university course to start.

    When I look at what the 3rd line jobs require its a long list and I dont even know where to start lol. I just figured if i volunteered myself to work for free for a year I will pick up some valuable knowledge??

    I haven't got a problem studying certs though, I just dont know which ones are important to get.
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  7. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    You've got a great foundation. What line of work do you have in mind? Its different for each role you see. Network Analyst, Server Team etc. Don't you want to continue with your developing skills and be a programmer?
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  8. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    I tried going into programming but it seems just impossible. I learnt as much as I could through self study and I just cant carry on going further than I have no matter how much I try.

    Plus I lack the experience to get anywhere near an entry level programming job, so I figured it would be easier to get myself into a hardware route as I already have 2 year experience in 2nd line.

    erm, I'm not really sure what my options were in terms of specializing to be honest. I'm comfortable with any aspect of computing, whether its programming or networking, so I don't mind going in any direction.

    Considering the current market and the future, what do you reckon is the best route to go down? and what would I need in terms of knowledge and certs?

    Thanks
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  9. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Well its very common to start off as Desktop Support (2nd level). I know you want to progress but really, and I have a Comp Sci degree myself, they want you to have gained an MCSA whilst working 2nd level in the places I've worked. Your degree will only really come into play once you start climbing the ladder, mine helped me become a Team Leader for instance. Personally if I were you I'd apply for all the desktop jobs because once your foot is in the door you can then progress to 3rd. Applying straight for 3rd as you are now isn't going to happen because the recession has ensured there are tons of highly qualified people for those roles. If you study for the MCDST it counts as the elective for your MCSA so a great start.
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  10. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    I'm already in desktop support (2nd level) lol. I was looking into doing a MCSE but more experienced people were advising me against it, as every man and his dog has a MCSE now and doesnt really count for anything. I'll have a look and see what options there are and take it from there.

    Thanks mate
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  11. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    If you've ben in 2nd line support for two years have you tried talking to your employer about moving into 3rd line or going sideways into something else ?

    Again, certs - what has your employer said about them ?
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  12. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    our 3rd line team is based in Newcastle, they will never give me a position up there lol. It would have been different if both teams were based in same office as I could pick up a thing or two, but oh well!
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  13. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Well you dont have the MCSE cert do you? :biggrin

    Try and decide which direction you want to take your IT career and base your certs aroumd that. 8)
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  14. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    I have a suspicion these "more experienced people" either don't know what their talking about OR they aren't that fussed on you bettering yourself and getting on. I'm working my way through my MCSE now and its a lot of hard work and long hours studying. These people could be referring to all the pussy's that cheat their way through exams and end up giving proper MCSE's a bad rep but believe me, anyone who's worked hard to get their MCSE and knows their stuff like they should, will have a lot of respect for you if you can make it to the MCSE. Do some searches on this site and you'll find all the neutral, unbiased advice you need to help you. Cheers, Jim
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  15. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    You've said you're holding out on Open Uni courses to start to get your teeth stuck in to the CCNA - why not grab yourself the CCENT Cisco Press book (it ain't a bank breaker!) and start getting ahead of the curve?

    If you're worried about the practical experience / lack of exposure to Cisco equipment, then have a gander at the Network+ material (CompTIA). As you're working at a second line level anyway, the material should be a breeze for you, and will give you a great reminder of the basics in time for you to get stuck in to the CCENT/NA.

    Those that say "every man and his dog has an MCSE are discounting (or taking for granted) a few things:

    1) A dog with an MCSE will be rubbish at troubleshooting a server. Unless the server is down a well, then he might just be able to pull it off (as long as the server name is Jimmy).

    2) Not every MCSE who has one, deserves it. ie, not every MCSE gets the prerequisite experience and exposure to the necessary techologies to actually make it a worthwhile certification in their armoury. As you are working in the field at second line, starting to pursue the MCSE may be the turning point you need for 3rd line.

    3) 3rd line is an awful generic term. Figure out which element you want to work on / specialise in. If you want a more general role then the list of skill sets required may well be longer than your arm, but it doesn't mean that you HAVE to have all those skills in place.

    4) Apply for jobs. The worst you can get is a 'no'. Of course, the only remaining caveat is the wage you're expecting for the job, though if you were initially suggesting working for free, I'm guessing there's room for maneouvre here.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  16. Waria Ahmed

    Waria Ahmed Byte Poster

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    Thanks guys, all valid points. I think I was looking at a 3rd line server support type of job. So I guess it is best for me to get myself stuck into the MCSE as I was looking at the spec MCSE covers and I'm sure it is beneficial in my wish to take a step up.
     
    Certifications: See Signature
    WIP: MCITP: Enterprise Administrator
  17. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    It sure is my friend. The MCSE is difficult if you don't cut corners but by the end of it, you'll be as good a professional as any I've met. Good luck, Jim
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV

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