1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Work Your Proper Hours Day

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by flex22, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. flex22

    flex22 Gigabyte Poster

    1,679
    0
    69
    A bit late, sorry, as today is already over.But hey, you might still be working :!:
    work your proper hours day

    Although I've not yet started working in IT, I have had jobs where people have expected me to work for nothing.

    Specifically one job where they expected me to come in one hour early, circa 6am for 'training' at no extra pay.Some people were annoyed but thought they had to come in, others just accepted it as normal, but I wasn't having any of it.
    They said it was non-negotiable and that we had to come in for training, so I just said s%d it and never went back, after I'd tried to rally some support, but to no end.

    If people had just stood up for the rights and had a little conviction about them that could have been sorted no problems, as workers have rights.
    People just go along with all sorts, it annoys me, they should stand up for themselves.

    That's just one example, but I've seen much more even in my short working life.

    I know that IT people work late often, due to projects.Ive no problem if people are being paid or if it's just now n then, and very little overtime not paid.But it's when people reguarly work over their normal working hours and employers think nothing of it when it's wrong.

    Everyone should stand up for their rights.

    Thanks :!:
     
  2. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

    9,915
    60
    229
    Interesting one there, Flex - pity you didn't get that posted earlier - I can imagine it would have drawn a storm of opinions (as only we can around here)

    I do tend to agree with the "stop ripping us off" philosophy behind your post, but by the same token, I feel it's only fair to defend the "manage your own time responsibly" mind-set that I've been fortunate to encounter in my last 2 jobs.

    Basically, it's OK to be 5-10 min late, or take a wee bit longer lunch if there's something important to be done, as long as reasonable efforts are made to "replace" that time elsewhere.

    If we become too militant about time in the workplace, then that flexibility could be withdrawn, and that IMHO wouldn't be a good thing.

    My 2 €s :oops:
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  3. Nelix
    Honorary Member

    Nelix Gigabyte Poster

    1,412
    3
    82
    I agree with both of you, if thats possible, employers should stop expecting us to work extra hours for no extra money, however jako makes a good point, at my place i can be a little late and as long as i work a little extra to make up for it, no one minds too much (as long as I don't make a habbit of it). I feel this approach make for a better working environment as If I AM late in leaving the house, stuck in traffic or sleep in, I dont have to panic and rush to work to get there on time thinking that I will get slated, I know I can take my time and not arrive at work already stressed before I start.
     
    Certifications: A+, 70-210, 70-290, 70-291
    WIP: 70-294
  4. flex22

    flex22 Gigabyte Poster

    1,679
    0
    69
    :soz but I don't know why your making the point of arriving a little late and making it up, as if I'm against this.Not sure how my post conveyed this.

    I do agree with you, but I'm just making it clear that I'm all for that as well.
    There's nothing militant about making sure that people aren't taken advantage of.Some people are easily bullied or frightened by employers.
    That's the point I'm making, I'm not interested in petty minutes here and there.

    Quote from the linked article by Brendan Barber, TUC General Secretary
    Thanks :!:
     
  5. SimonV

    SimonV Petabyte Poster Administrator

    6,616
    149
    228
    I don't think the guys are in any way disagreeing with what your saying Flex more putting their views forward in the best way they can.

    I've worked for a few different companies doing all kinds of jobs and in some jobs time is very important as it can have a major impact on the company image and also on a personal level create stress for the individual when deadlines and appointments have to be met.

    For instance I've worked as an IT trainer and in teaching there is no room to arrive 10 mins late, most of the time you need to be 10 mins early to set everything up make sure what you've planned will work. The company didn't make me go in early I chose to go in so I knew I could perform on the day.

    On the other side of the coin my current job is much more like Nelix in that I don't have to worry about 5 minutes here or there and can be pretty flexible with my time as long as the job gets done. This sort of approach does suit me much better but thats the nature of the job. Can you imagine a fireman or a policeman getting called on a job and half way through saying "OK I'm off its 5:30"

    I do think as a nation we have the wrong approach to working hours and something should be done to change the expectations of people in some professions but at the end of the day we have created this situation and only us can get out of it if we make a conscious effort to stand up for ourselves.
     
    Certifications: MOS Master 2003, CompTIA A+, MCSA:M, MCSE
    WIP: Keeping CF Alive...
  6. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

    9,915
    60
    229
    Flex,

    As Si rightly points out, I was in no way disagreeing with anything you were saying, or the points you were putting across in you Post. I was simply offering an alternative point of view from a different angle.
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  7. Sandy

    Sandy Ex-Member

    1,091
    2
    65
    I never work for free :!:

    Being married to a Chartered Accountant helps.

    "Where do I sent the invoice" is my 2nd question on any job. :twisted:
     
  8. Rosy
    Honorary Member

    Rosy Megabyte Poster

    665
    1
    54
    Sadly we don't all have that luxury Sandy! :cry:

    Doing something for nothing can help those of us who need it, to get the chance that we deserve to show that we are worth something to the employer (or not as the case may be) and shows them that we are going to be hardworking and dedicated. We just have to be careful though that we don't get pushed too far - working for free or doing that bit extra is great if we are after a chance, a promotion or it helps us better ourselves - as long as we don't let ourselves get trampled on - once you let that happen the only way out is usually to leave.
     
    Certifications: MOS Master Instructor
  9. SimonV

    SimonV Petabyte Poster Administrator

    6,616
    149
    228
    In the past this sort of working pattern has helped me get a good foot hold in a job. Before I got into IT I was a forklift truck driver and to only way I could see to get into my first IT job was to work voluntarily once a week helping out at one of my local training companies. After about 2 months they offend me a 3 month trial for a trainee tutor position. The rest as they say is history.
     
    Certifications: MOS Master 2003, CompTIA A+, MCSA:M, MCSE
    WIP: Keeping CF Alive...
  10. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    13,493
    179
    287
    With the slump in the IT field, a lot of people, especially those new to the field are feeling lucky just to have jobs. Many are made to feel that they have to let themselves be exploited or become unemployed. After all, there are a ton of techs out there hungry for jobs who probably would let themselves be ripped off.

    I suppose one of the advantages of being a contract employee is that I'm expected to bill for my actual hours on the job. It's the same with writing (sort of) in that you agree to write a certain number of chapters for a particular rate per page or per chapter. Of course with writing, the amount of time you spend on each chapter is sometimes unpredictable. Some of it is very easy and some requires a ton of research. There's also the hidden work of the reviews and rewrites some of which can take place after the publisher has cut your check. You're still responsible until the job is completely done. Of course, it does encourage you to turn in a high quality product the first time so the rewrites will be minimal.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  11. Sandy

    Sandy Ex-Member

    1,091
    2
    65
    Good point Rosy but it is then a question of educating your employer/customer.

    While in an employee/employer relationship the” Invoice method" may not work what about flexible working hours or longer holidays?

    My wife is currently re-training to be a Transactional Analysis - a branch of Psychotherapy one of the theories that she has learnt is that there must be a contract between two parties for work to be seen as valued. This maybe a tiny exchange of money or time.

    We all know that IT people can fall into the trap of helping out a mate with a problem the next thing you have is him/her ringing every few days for advice and help - even if you say it will cost you a pint then that is a contract the work you have done.
     
  12. Layton

    Layton New Member

    5
    0
    1
    It should be remembered that training does not just benefit the company, but it adds to your own personal improvement. Too many times I have been involved in a business where they will just let you rot with no personal gain. It is in the interests of all that we are flexable and help a good business to help us with our own personal achievements.

    Move away from this "them and us" attitude and towards a "for the betterment of all". At the same time, never become a victim. :)

    Just my thoughts.
     
  13. mattwest

    mattwest Megabyte Poster

    514
    8
    62
    Just seen this post from a while back, b4 my time here tho, so here's my 2 cents.

    I do think both the company and employee need to be flexible.

    Where i'm working now, if i'm 15 mins late to work or from, thats ok and i make the time when i can. But its all about getting the work done. Its my work ethic that makes me make up any lost time.

    However it has to apply to all, recently our programmers (who think they are gods!!) have been coming in late and taking longer lunches, so i dont feel guilty for taking a slightly longer lunch myself (or spending 15 mins ordering a new washing machine as i did today!).

    I'm willing to work late if a server goes down or something, but if i had to do more than an hour here and there, i would just take it is time in lieu... its only fair.

    I agree, stand up and say NO to forced unpaid overtime, but if given reasonable time to complete a task and it isnt done, its your responsibilty to get it done.

    Usually if the company does well, you benefit too (or thats the theory!!)

    Matt
     
    Certifications: See my signature...
    WIP: Maybe re-certify my CCNA

Share This Page

Loading...