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Windows is easy!

Discussion in 'Software' started by simongrahamuk, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Over the last few weeks I've been playing with Linux, and I havent made much progress, mainly because I'm realising just how much I have been spoilt by Microsoft, and how much windows is driven by wizzards.

    Realisticaly, you do not need to be an IT professional to install and configure windows server. Stick the CD in and away you go, then as soon as it's installed there is a screen that asks you to configure your server! As long as you are familliar with the basic terminology, i.e. Active Directory, DNS, and DHCP then you can very easilly use the wizzards to set up a network server!

    Ok, so to be a real admin you need to know what's going on behind the wizzard, but Windows simply makes it so simple that many people simply never need look!

    Learning Linux is exposing me to what really goes on 'under the hood'.

    :eek:
     
  2. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    yeah you telling me! DNS for example... its all text file editing where as server has a interface and wizard to do all the dirty work for you! :x how boring! :x
     
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  3. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Now you're starting to understand why I like Linux. It teaches whoever uses it a lot. A Linux admin knows what is going on. Many Windows admins never really understand what they are doing. All they know is point and click. I was never satisified with that. That's why I have so many books. I needed to know what was behind the wizard....
     
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  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    If windows is easy, why am I still in work?

    :x

    :D
     
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  5. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    A proper IT admin/engineer will know what's going on behind the wizard. Microsoft created wizards to assist the IT professional to set things up faster, so that they can do more with their time. I (as well as a lot of tech I know) can set up a proper domain enviornment with multiple DC's (running AD, DHCP, DNS etc) faster thru the MS wizards, than I can set a total linux enviornment up. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't have the time to do everything "manually".

    Besides I remember a few years ago when I first installed Linux, I hated it. Recently I installed linux and it was a brezze, they have managed to get a nice installation procedure, almost like a wizard. The more popular it gets - the easier it'll get - the more popular it'll get. It'll just keep on going around in a circle until Linux will have it's own full set of wizards.

    "Learning Linux is exposing me to what really goes on 'under the hood'"

    Once you actually get more and more involved down the MCSE route, you'll start to realise what is going on. I'm not talking about just doing the MCDST or 70-270/290, I'm talking about the harder courses, check them out and get your hands dirty.

    Last but not least... I'm not saying that Windows is the best thing since sliced bread, and I'm not saying that Linux is rubbish. What I am saying is don't be so fast to jump to judgements/conclusions about a product, find out everything first.

    A quote out of Linux Format March 2006 (p114), the editorial titled "The Truth hurts":

    "These highlights an alarming double standard: when Microsoft makes false claims about it's wares, we all jump all over them. But when a free software app streches the truth, we don't bat an eyelid." -Cynn (for the complete article, get the mag)

    Now why is that?
     
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  6. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    I don't agree at all with that really. It's like saying it's pointless to learn any aspects of Server 2k3 because there are wizards that can do most of the work for you.

    They can set some aspects of the server up in a 'typical role' with 'typical' settings, but thats it really. If you need to deviate from the wizard script at all, then you would be pretty screwed if all you ever learnt about is the wizard way of doing things.

    I certainly don't agree that having wizards there is a dis-incentive to learning what goes on 'under the hood'. At the end of the day that is down to the person using whatever system they are working on and how much they want to learn and understand things.

    Well that's my 2 cents anyway. :)
     
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  7. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Ken, I wasn't saying that I don't understand what goes on behind the wizzard, I do know how to do these things work, as any Administrator should. What I was trying to say was it is easy to see, after using Linux, how much MS keeps hidden from you through the use of the wizzard.

    I agree completely with you that the wizzards make things a lot easier, thats what they're there for.

    8)
     
  8. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Thats not what I was getting at Zimbo, what I mean is that you can easilly set things like DNS up in windows, but not have a clue what a Forward lookup zone or a pointer record is.
     
  9. d-Faktor
    Honorary Member

    d-Faktor R.I.P - gone but never forgotten.

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    i completely agree with that.

    as for the wizards, or the gui tools, they can also be 'dangerous'. when you look at active directory users and computers, or the dns admin tool, or even adsiedit, it all looks the same. its all very similar to windows explorer, with a folder tree and objects. if you happen to have enough rights (which you shouldn't in the first place), and if you don't know what you're doing, or have no idea what the tool is for, (or if you're sleepy...), it's very easy to delete stuff that really shouldn't be deleted.
     
  10. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    I agree that the wizards in Windows can save time when rolling out a new server but the real skill comes when locking the server down etc. Also it’s worth noting if a Windows box can be deployed quickly it can save money for a client who is paying for an installation and also saves resources for the IT Company involved.

    Talking of Linux though the monitor on a Fedora Core Server at work was changed and it wouldn’t detect the new monitor so we ended up having to bring the old monitor back, not fun! Is plug and play not an option yet? Even though it’s great to know what’s happening under the hood if it makes a five minute job an hour job then sometimes it just isn’t practical. :blink

    Not bashing Linux but Windows still has a lot to offer. :biggrin
     
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  11. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Although I can see that wizards are becoming more necessary as the products get more complex and powerful, I see no need to make them child's play like Microsoft have done with recent OSs.

    All this configure your server wizard, and step by step instructions somewhat negate the need for the knowledge gleaned whilst studying the thing.

    SBS 2003 Premium is totally wizard driven, I honestly think a child of 5 could set it up. It still takes about 5 hours though :eek:
     
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  12. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    I'm not sure what Fedora uses, but you can fix these issues in Debian by running "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86/xorg" depending on which xserver you're using. To tell the truth I've switched monitors around on Debian and never had a problem. Did you switch from a crt to an lcd type monitor? If so you probably need to reconfigure your xserver. The configuration file for that is usually found in /etc/X11.

    Just one more instance of Windows hiding what's going on under the hood. In Linux you actually learn how things are configured.... I like that.
     
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  13. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    I have a Dell 2405 monitor at work, and I actually get much better graphics when running Debian than I do when running XP as it is a dual-boot workstation. The Windows fonts are all jaggy while in Linux everything is nice and smooth right out of the box. I can actually run higher resolution in Linux than I can in Windows too, and this is using an ATI X300 which is supposed to be crap in Linux....
     
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  14. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    As it's an LCD monitor Freddy, you might (but i doubt it) want to try this..

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/tips/konikowski1.mspx
     
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  15. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    We did, thanks for the tip :biggrin
     
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  16. zimbo
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    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    i think i sparked a OS war here!!! - just dont forget im learning server too! and i agree its not all wizard based in 2003, there are times you need to manually add PTR records to the DNS and i dont think there is a wizard is there?? :rolleyes:


    Oh and easy with me and 291! im a Server newbie! still on 290! :biggrin

    Now everyone can have a cold one on me after trying to chop my head off! :mad

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Was only a bit of fun mate, all in good spirit.

    I will gladly join in with all the beer drinking! :beers2
     
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  18. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    i very much disagree with the "all wizards" statement. while you *can* setup things without knowing how they work, and the 270 (which as i see is the only one you've done Zimbo) is in fact very much like that, i find it insulting that you essentially think that i've passed say the 291 or 293 without knowing what's under the hood, that all i know or must know for the exam is how to "click through wizards".
    yes, i *even* know how to edit the text file. you must understand the dns records in text format for the exam.
    and how do you suppose one would find solutions to the scenario's problems without understanding how it all works?
     
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  19. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    I don't think that anyone was trying to say that it is 'all' wizzards. the point that I personally was making is that you 'could' set up a perfectly reliable and stable server using just wizzards. To make the server more secure, and adapt it to its specific environment you need to know what lies under the wizzard, this is where the knowledgable IT pro really comes in.

    Zimbo may well have passed only 270, but he is working on 290, and building up his skills by venturing off into the Linux world, something that will undoubtedly make him a better Windows admin, because the benefits of a wizzard driven interface will be known, but he will also appreciate what the wizzard is doing behind the scenes more than a lot of pure windows admins will.

    When I say 'pure windows admins' I'm not talking about those who have taken the time to learn and get certified, I mean those that simply 'do'. The certification experience enables you to learn beyond the wizzard.

    :biggrin
     
  20. Rik

    Rik Nibble Poster

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    Linux certainly brings you down to earth and makes you use your brain.

    Ive dabbled a little with Linux, my fav being Slackware which is the most "UNIX Like" distro out there, and must say i really enjoy using it, but boy the learning curve is steep.

    I highly recommend a bit of a dabble with Linux.

    For beginners i recommened Ubuntu.
     

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