Saw this the other day I think on Tekzilla. Seems like a good idea as you can save resources although MS are saying its to allow competition for other browsers etc

Long Live the FOX!!!

Sounds great i will try it tomorrow. More control for user means more people will like it.

It's like real free-market competition now. What a bunch of nice monopolists.

How is Microsoft a bunch of monopolists? No one ever forced any one to install Windows on their machine.

How is we be monopolists? I'z dunno.

On the same thread (no pun intended), Here's an interesting article if you fancy a read - http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=322

Qs

You don't have to have a monopoly to be a monopolist. Oligopolies and cartels can engage in monopolistic practices as well. The law exists to protect free-markets from those who would corrupt them. Unfortunately there hasn't been any enforcement in 16 years, under both Democan and Republicrat administrations. And that's why we have corporations that are too big to fail and "free" markets that seem to no longer work.

... antitrust law, that is.... but I guess we're too busy waging never ending wars... anywho....

And ironically, the most famous trust busters in American history were Republicans (T.R. and Taft). The exact opposite of the situation today! Only unions bust trusts nowadays.

Errr....yes they did, large vendors were blackmailed into only offering windows on their PC hardware for many years...

Being a monopoly means controlling the market or access to the market, microsoft could use demand for their products the ensure suppliers further up in the supply chain would not stock other products.

This is not a healthy free market, its like going to the supermarket and finding all they can sell you is cucumbers, 'but everybody likes cucumbers' ! Thats not the point.

I don't want to be nasty or anything but...

Do you really need 3 posts for 8 sentences in a period of 25 minutes?

Okay, large vendors never forced you to buy those PCs though, and once you had those PCs you were never forced to keep that software, if one did not want it bad enough they could have found the solution easily by going to any PC store and reading a book about loading up any other OS they might want. I'm just saying it's going a bit far and becoming a bit fanatical to accuse them of being monopolists.

Part of your argument is, 'The Market is King', this does not always work, look at crowd behaviour, it can be very dumb sometimes. Look at the 'stampede' where people get trampled yet there is no danger. Mob rule etc.

Success in the market does not equate to benefit to society or a good product, look at MacDonalds. Also how would you feel if MacDonalds got a true stranglehold on the market ? Fancy taking your gf there on valentines day ?

If you have had to purchase the computer with the OS, then the supplier has been forced to install it, and you have been forced to buy it and the monopoly has been enforced and profited from the ordeal. You on the other hand have had to pay more and been inconvienienced. This is exactly the opposite of what you stated making your argument plain wrong. (This is basic game theory, if your opposition wins when you win, and they win when you lose, in the long run they win.)

Free markets are supposed to be about consumer choice and competition. You have been denied choice and competition has been stifiled.

Free markets are supposed to encourage better products, people to strive for innovative new solutions and technologies, and basically drag the human race forward. If I have a monopoly I can keep selling you the horse and cart and the sundial, I can ensure you never get the motorcar or the watch.

There is a vast wealth of evidence out there, why do you think there have been numerous court cases ? It would get thrown out of court without any hearing otherwise.

They control access to the market, most consumers will never install their own OS, but they will buy a Mac or a NetBook.

If anyone wants anything bad enough they can get it, if a black woman wants to sit at the front of a bus she can, just it might take 50+ years for her to be able to do it without fear for her life. Its about what people think is fair and what the law is.

Ahh the infamous image

Qs

They control the market because their product is for the average user, easy to use and reliable and no thrills, if PCs came with nothing installed it would do nothing but make it harder for the consumer, who ultimately would buy windows anyway.

It is moaning by sore losers about this monopoly crap, its an Apple and Windows market and frankly, windows wins most times because it isn't $2000 and it is easy for joe bloggs to grasp, people seem to think MS got where they are purely by busting caps and buying companies, there is a lot more to it than that, one of them reasons being the fact the product works, what more do you want? I'm certainly not complaining about MS owning the market, good support for their products, familiar interface, easy to upgrade their systems.

I'd say macs are a lot more limited than windows, but no one seems to be busting them about the lack of "options".

Microsofts Business model however unethical, works, it works better than Bill probably thought, there is nothing stopping people creating a product that competes with Windows realistically, it is just really hard to do something windows hasn't already done. Make a product that the public really take to and you can blackmail people into installing, until then shut up and stop being sour about your poor product, poor following and the fact the majority of people do not even know you exist, you joined the game too late haha.

Well I don't make the rules, if they want monopolies and dictatorships, get rid of the laws and courts and bring in the tanks like tiananmen square! Its their own country's laws they broke and those of other countries.

Windows was not first, its a fairly derivative unoriginal product, hence my product would not be 'doing something windows has done', but would be mimicking one of hundreds of previous operating systems.

I am not sour, I use Vista and XP every day, I am simply stating the facts that M$ had anti-competative agreements with nearly all its major customers for many years.

I don't have a product, so how can I have a poor following ? What on earth are you on ? Who joined what game too late ? Developing a full featured modern desktop OS from scratch would take 1,000,000's on man hours of work. Thats why Linus Torvalds concentrated on creating a kernel, without the pre-existing GNU tools and other developments to follow by 1000's of others he'd of got nowhere near anything resembling a modern OS.

If Walmart moved in, sold at a loss, closed down all your local shops then decided to leave your town, how would you feel about it ?

Monopolies have very real affects on peoples lives, but I guess as long as you can play the lastest wolfenstein clone who cares ?

At least the hippy stoners of the 70's had a social conscience, now we have people in chinese sweat shops playing WOW 24/7 to sell artifacts to loser gamers in the west...