Will you still recommend CompTIA?

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Its all kinda relative isn't it ? To someone on a maths degree basic Calculus is entry level. Cisco lists it as their entry level cert.

Cisco supply IT essentials 1 and 2, courses with similar content to A+/N+, theres no reason a person could not take these and then embark on CCENT.

Just because you learn something doesn't mean you have to cert on it, so even if you see CCENT as above entry level it can still be your first cert as long as you study to gain the prerequisite knowledge.

Maybe in your rather cert obsessed world, but in reality there are many people who have practical tech skills that will not have the A+,N+ or Sec+.

They could pick up those skills from many places, an electronics course, many academic courses, work experience. Blindly making the choice on a cert list would be unwise at best.

Yes it may be CompTias cert program but people entered into an agreement under a set of conditions as you admit. Legally they may have the right to change it but I'd suggest retrospective changes are at least a bit unethical.

2a, well if we all do it I'd love to see them sue their entire membership, that will make them popular !

As for point 3, no they can't force me to recert, but if I don't they will take my certs and break the previous agreement I had with them. In my book thats tantamount to theft, they will have taken my money under false pretences and left me with nothing to show for it.

 

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Does this make much difference anyway, To anyone even entry level people?

In practice all of these "Certifications" are only "CV Fodder" anyway.

2015 all of our jobs will be outsourced anyway

 

Yes, but the E stands for Entry does it not?

 

Just because it's their entry-level cert doesn't mean that the cert is for entry-level techs. This discussion has been done to death. No entry-level employer in their right mind would require the CCENT. The job tasks tested on the CCENT have nothing to do with what an entry-level tech with no previous experience would be asked to do.

You're right - the CCENT CAN be your first certification.... if you have IT experience. Otherwise, it won't do you any good in getting employment.

Let's lay off the personal attacks, D. I always tell people that experience is the most useful thing in getting a job, and you know that. You're just wanting to pick a fight.

For those that don't have that experience, an entry-level certification that relates to an entry-level job (NOT the CCENT) can be quite helpful in making their CV stand out.

Yep. And for those with work experience, the A+ would not be as helpful. Might make the difference only in cases where there are two candidates with similar experience... and only if the employer values the A+.

I agree.

 

It's CISCO'S entry-level certification... which is not designed for entry-level techs. If you doubt, go look at the CCENT exam topics and tell me if you truly believe that an entry-level tech would be entrusted to do what's listed there.

 

You have no clue what you're talking about, do you?

 

But CompTIA are surely in violation too, as when I took my A+ and Network+, CompTIA 'sold' them as lifetime certifications.

I can agree with that.

 

I do agree with you that it would not make most techs happy with CompTIA, especially considering CompTIA broke their agreement with them. But that said, employers don't really care what certifications are "popular" with techs. Entry-level employers would continue to ask for applicants with A+ certifications as much (or as little) as they do now.

It's not theft, but it might be ruled as a violated agreement or contract of some sort. I would watch with interest if any techs were to decide to pursue legal action against CompTIA. CompTIA would likely try to wriggle out of it with the blanket clause, and I paraphrase, "CompTIA reserves the right to modify the terms of its certification program at any time."

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because they do something wrong doesn't give us the right to do something wrong.

If you want to remain certified, recertify or pursue legal action against them for breaking their part of the agreement.

 

I agree... CCENT would not be easy for someone with a non-IT background; however, it is relative and (sorry to be pedantic) but you did say "Cisco doesn't have entry-level certs".

Bottom line is that there are a hell of a lot of people out there and on here who are well and truly hacked off with the unilateral way CompTIA have 'ripped up the rule book' and forced in changes without so much as a discussion/forum. If they had attempted to gauge the views of the certification holders who (as many have said) paid good money for what are suppsosed to be lifetime certifications, then they would have saved themselves a lot of bother and money.

As it is, I am sure that they will suffer as a consequence of this.

People will still learn the basics but will not necessarily take the exams. I for one will not recert my A+ and Network+; however, I did have an affection for something that I was proud of achieving and listed on my personal business card.

It's their loss.

 

I have no intention of doing anything wrong; however, if someone asks me if they should study for an entry level certification and then pay approx £180 for an A+ that will expire in 3 years then I will tell them to save their money unless their employer expressly requires it. I would hope that, if the employer requires it then they'll pay for it.

 

Few entry-level employers require it; many entry-level employers prefer applicants that have it (all else being equal). Every edge you can get over your competition is helpful, ESPECIALLY when trying to break into IT. It's competitive enough as it is! The last thing you need is for someone to have an advantage over you because you chose to not get the certification.

 

Three years is a long time, well to me. By that time i'll probley want to re-certify if i'm not already loaded with qualifcations and in a decent job. Point put simple, I would personally want to keep up-to-date as technology changes rapidly although the exams themselfs don't change that much. (Who uses a hub nowadays?

I'm also not sure why everyones arguing over something so pathetic, do you really care if there changing there rule? It's not the end of the world, move on, get over it, reformat your computer. Oh and yes i'm well aware they were for life its the main reason I wanted to take CompTIA's exams not only that they are ENTRY level certifcates which help you towards your MCDST and a job.

CCENT maybe an entry cert, but it isn't an entry job requirement as others have stated (Google ftw).

 

As Dales mentioned earlier (in this thread, from memory) there don't seem to be that many jobs/vacancies in the UK where A+ is a pre-req - at least not at the moment. I've just done a search myself and found 3. It sounds as though it could be different in the US. If that is the case, and if CompTIA are setting their stall at the US marketplace specifically then so be it.

Perhaps the likes of the BCS could take on the role in the UK, providing similar certifications, albeit cheaper if they expect them to expire every x years.

 

Err... read up on Rosa Parks, Gandhi etc.

Sometimes the law is an ass and as a citizen it is your absolute right to stand up and be counted.

I thought it was the land of the free ?

 

Perhaps I should have said, "Cisco doesn't have any certifications for entry-level techs", but if I did, someone just as pedantic would say, "But, but, but, it's for techs entering into Cisco!!!"

Come on, guys, let's establish a bit of terminology so we can all be clear with one another - for years, we have said that "entry-level certifications" are certifications that people entering the IT field should get... typically, the A+, Network+, and MCDST. The CCENT is not one of these certiifcations.

Techs have every right to be pissed off. And that's been agreed to by, from what I can tell, just about everyone on here. But that has nothing to do with whether the CCENT is for entry-level techs or should be recommended to entry-level techs. Just because we're pissed at CompTIA doesn't mean the CCENT is a good alternative for people starting out in IT.

I'm not entirely convinced that they will. Many employers will continue to prefer applicants with CompTIA certs, so people will continue to get CompTIA certs. I'd guess that first-time certifiers won't drop by too much. After all, many of them aren't going to care that they're not lifetime certifications anyway... they simply see it as a way to get into IT.

This is similar to the same argument that's been done to death about Microsoft and braindumpers - the question of whether we should get a certification that doesn't hold as much value as it once did. Techs are (understandably) upset because Microsoft does little against braindumpers... yet employers continue to ask for Microsoft-certified techs. So we techs either have to refuse to get certified (thereby making the braindumpers look more attractive to an employer) or swallow our anger and certify anyway despite Microsoft's reluctance to take a harder stance against the dumpers.

This situation, in my opinion, is quite similar. We can be mad at CompTIA all we want and refuse to certify and make others look more attractive to employers... or we can swallow our anger and certify anyway because we need every advantage we can get.

All that said... I don't this will have the positive effects that CompTIA thinks it will have. CompTIA obviously believes that this will 1) improve the reputation of their certification program by requiring techs stay up on technologies and 2) bring in more revenue for the company in a down economy. But I don't think it will. As many of us have stated above, most techs aren't going to recertify. Those few who do will likely be offset by those who won't now certify in the first place because CompTIA certifications are no longer "lifetime" certs. Thus, no increase in revenue for CompTIA. Plus, there will be fewer total techs who hold their certifications (as old ones decertify). Over time, this could have a negative effect on how CompTIA is perceived by employers - but that'll take a while.

Certifications aren't to learn new material; certifications are to impress an employer. You can learn new material all day long, but to an employer who doesn't know you from Adam, your knowledge and $5 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

That's entirely likely. We shall see.

 

Please. This isn't anything close to civil rights, and you disgrace the memory of those who were truly persecuted by putting us in their position.

It is. You are free to certify or free to not certify. It's your choice. But you are not free to take the law into your own hands and break it as you see fit just because you don't like something. That's like saying that you will chop down your neighbor's tree because he stole your deck chairs, or that you will steal a record-company's music just because they're evil, profit-hungry companies out to make a buck.

If you want to fight, fight within the law. Let them step outside of it, not you.

 

That's not the point. It's their legal trademark. Will you go to jail? Probably not. CompTIA doesn't have little cert lawyers running around filing lawsuits for everyone who falsely claims that they hold a CompTIA certification. But legally they have every right to.

Do what you will... I'm simply giving you the legal justification against doing it.